Not to send my children to private school even though I can afford it

[AdamRyan]

I believe in comprehensive education and think children should all be educated together, to improve social mobility and prevent a "brain drain" where less privileged children go to some schools, and more privileged go to others.
Am I in the minority and being naive?

YANBU - comprehensive schools are the way to go
YABU - I'd send my children private if I could

Private schools are immoral, unfair and create division in society. I'd be ashamed to send my child to one. The only way to improve the education system as a whole is it ban them. YANBU.

Sexisthairdressers · Today 10:12
Private schools are immoral, unfair and create division in society. I'd be ashamed to send my child to one. The only way to improve the education system as a whole is it ban them. YANBU

Would you also ban home schooling or parents educating their ds abroad?
Why is it the only way to improve the education system?

This is precisely what I object to.
You know nothing about me, my background, the school my children go to other than what I've shared on the thread.

Yet you imply I'm small minded and would see things your way, if I had the right life experience. To you, either I'm naive or a bad mother for choosing not to go private.

It's offensive to me.

Very similar to the school we were in the catchment area for. DS would have been in the SEN 'annex' where the focus was on 'life skills', and no expectation of academic advancement. I was shocked- and my father who was a HT in a special school in my home country who was with us when we viewed the school was horrified and said that teaching in my home country had stopped using the sort of language and approach to SEN kids in the early 80s. It was the inability to adapt to the pupil's needs that sold us on the school we sent him to. (Plus, the fact that the head teacher at the state school described him to us as 'a little wird'. ).

I know from talking to parents at our school that if the VAT on fees comes in they simply will have to leave the private sector. many on the thread won't weep for them I know, but it does lead to the question of - have the Labour party thought through the consequences. They haven't. They never do (and I doubt any party of any stripe does when economic policy is driven by ideology). A £1.5 bn tax take is a lovely soundbite but it has no meat to its bones.

You object to that post?

Schools are very area specific. I don’t see why you are inferring judgement on your ability as a mother from that.

They can but if they call out others for being hypocrites for doing so it’s odd.
Yes in that situation I'd 100% agree!

If they choose private whilst blasting others for doing it then they're hypocrites.

If they're a bog standard Labour supporter who acknowledges they're fortunate to have options, whilst wanting all children to have a good education and acknowledging parents are doing their best in a failing system then they shouldn't be attacked for not being pure enough.

I sort of agree on last para, although haven’t really thought the second part through enough to say. And it’s too nicely humid outside to think more on it ;

On the first maybe they’re reading and will self reflect

I know from talking to parents at our school that if the VAT on fees comes in they simply will have to leave the private sector. many on the thread won't weep for them I know, but it does lead to the question of - have the Labour party thought through the consequences.

I think Labour want to ban private education without actually banning it and of course there are myriad ways of doing that. They can use high taxation putting fees out of reach of the vast majority: they could impose some health & safety law on boarding schools insisting that every child must have a member of staff each to ensure their well-being, or every child must have a bedroom & bathroom of their own or whatever. They’d be able to come up with all sorts of ideas.
This wouldn’t be ‘banning’ private schools - merely making them impossible to continue.

In the former East Germany, if the authorities got to hear of a citizen owning a valuable work of art (and the populace was keen on reporting other citizens) then they wouldn’t confiscate the work of art as the Nazis had done, but send the owner such a high tax bill that he/she was obliged to sell up.

The whole concept of judging anyone on what educational choices they make for their DC in itself is problematic and aggressive. The OP has revealed his or her judgemental nature when stating that s/he feels like she is arguing with a whole lot of “City boys” yesterday. How misogynistic and cliched. Especially when it couldn’t be further from the truth.

Taxing private schools and making a big deal and noise about it is problematic because it singles out a group of children and their parents and that is just hateful. It is envious, jealous and not what I want modern day Britain to stand for. Let’s be kind to each other and avoid all hate. Even if we personally don’t “like” private schools that is just our own ideology and why should anyone feel their own ideology is more important than other people’s?

I do think this next election is quite important because we do need to build a positive future England. Now we have burnt the house down, time to emerge positively so anything hateful I cannot get on board with. I feel really strongly about this. Also about the fact that all these middle aged men arguing with each other want to tell us how to think and what choices to make.

I also think the Labour Party need to be really careful - some of us want church schools, Jewish schools, Muslim schools etc- some are state/some are private. Some of us want grammar schools, specialist Sixth Form colleges etc etc. The fact that the private sector can offer more choice to some people is a good thing, not a bad thing. As a left leaning centrist, I am just as fearful of the far left as the far right - as in when we get into nanny state, racist, antisemitic, central government controlled territory and telling people what to think and what choices to make, no thanks!

So OP you do you and let other people make their own choices. But listen when some of us are telling you that in London, if you attack private schools, it could be seen as racism and xenophobia. If you bother looking at some of the statistics in detail.

I think Labour (and many who can't afford private education) think its unfair for the tax payer to subsidise the wealthy in sending their children to private school.

I don't think anyone objects to parents being able to pay for private education if they want to and can.

My objection is the schools are businesses and should be taxed and treated as such. If that means prices rise and some existing parents are priced out, too bad. That's the situation for most of society anyway, and just reflects that the current system is benefiting the wealthy at the tax payers expense.

Those children will add some cost into the state system, but on the flip side it's likely to add more into the local economies as the parents pay for all the enrichment activities mentioned upthread.

JustanothermagicMonday1
I absolutely love your post!
I'm not opposed to tax reform of the private education sector in itself, but I think that attacking private schools in the way that has happened lately is an own goal when there's like to be a lot of parents who'd probably vote labour and have opted private education because of the state system at the moment rather than because they knew from the offset they'd educate their children privately.

Any reform of private education should, in my opinion, go hand in hand with a proper overhaul of state education, related services for families and also include things such as swimming schools, music tuition etc. It needs to be properly considered by people who know what they're talking about, not soapbox preaching from people with chips on their shoulders and a burning desire to prove they're one of the good ones.

Your children, your money, your choice. Just don't virtue signal. Its laughable.

There seems to be some sensitivity on this topic for the op going by the reaction to the pp wording

I’m guessing it’s why this thread was started too, as another thread prompted the same offence

“I think Labour (and many who can't afford private education) think its unfair for the tax payer to subsidise the wealthy in sending their children to private school.”

This statement is grossly inaccurate. It costs the state copious amounts to state educate every child. 14 years x let’s call it current average of about 6.5k=91k. Those privately educating are saving the state money!

Or are you going to tell us that those paying for private health care are being subsidised by the tax payer too?!

What’s the point in being offended? People are going to hold those opinions whether you object or not, same as you’re going to hold yours despite the objections of others.

These threads always go the same way. It’s not just the private sector itself that ends up criticized, the insults and stereotypes flee freely in regards to the schools, the parents who use them, and the kids that go there. As soon as the reverse occurs though it’s suddenly offensive and ‘wrong to stereotype’.

There are always going to be those that think you’re wrong, same as you’re going to think that about others. There is zero point in getting offended about it, you don’t need anyone else’s approval anymore than they need yours.

Or are you going to tell us that those paying for private health care are being subsidised by the tax payer too?!

To a certain extent - yes. Private healthcare doesn't always have the capacity to deal with serious cases - the patients still end up in the NHS hospitals.

Agree. It’s a backwards statement.

People who use private still pay for the state place via taxes, they just don’t use it.

The op and others are not subsidising those using private.

It's hardly a guess, I've said multiple times why I started the thread 😂

I'm "sensitive" aka offended by the repeated implication by some private school parents that everyone would choose private if they could, unless they are a bad parent driven by ideology. Seems the right wingers think that's ok but any suggestion they pay for private to get away from the great unwashed are rude and unacceptable. Pot, meet kettle

Private health care is run as a business not a charity

Private schools are subsidised by the government. Most parents who use them could afford higher fees, so its unnecessary

Not that funny but ok

I know you’re incorrectly extrapolating because you reacted to my posts and since we use state, and appreciate what we have, I know you’re sensitive ie inferring things that are more in your head than other people’s.

The bad mother stuff for example appears silly to me, I read posts on here that you find great offence with eg schools depend on the area. They do.

As a state user I know they do.

Why are you so put out by that?

People who use private healthcare and schools, still pay taxes towards those things, and don’t use them.

You could argue they are subsidising the people who do 🤷‍♀️. At the very least, they are reducing the pressure for school places/appointments. What happens if they all stop going private and flood the state sectors in both?

I personally think they're a waste of money. They don't necessarily get you better jobs or a better life.

I'm not.
I'm put out by posters assuming i have no experience of anything other than an outstanding comp in a leafy green middle class utopia where everyone is well to do. And that I paid to move to said suburban utopia which probably cost me the same as private fees, therefore I'm an ill informed ideological zealot who is being hypocritical.

None of that is true about me so it offends me to have these stupid straw men being built.

Anyway, you are another poster I'm not responding to again because you aren't posting in good faith and it's just boring and repetitive to type the same things again and again.

What a way to sign off.

I am posting in good faith. I’m talking about state school use.

And since I was one of the posters that I’m guessing prompted your reaction I find it a big leap in your posts.

Why would I judge you for using state when I do?

I don’t even think you moved there on purpose, we didn’t either but I can still see the area means our school is excellent in part due to it.

Getting the hump and ending with insults as you just have is a bit odd. Are you typically so reactive?

@AdamRyan - but how do you know that @SunnyEgg is not posting in good faith?

Why are you arguing with other parents using state schools? I never cared about people making comments about us choosing a church school or a grammar for my DC, why do you even care what you think others may think?! I don’t give a f… I don’t care if anyone thinks I was a “pushy” parent etc - I am proud of all the effort I put into my DC.

It is childish to care what other people think especially if they are just being judgemental or cliched in the first place. If you care too much, you might be insecure about your own choices. However, it should not lead to you trying to dictate other people’s choices. Live and let live.

It is a bit like being back at uni and the discussions about job choices. Are you going to be go into the creative field/charity work etc vs are you going to sell out and become a banker etc? Surely, by the time people have had kids and experienced life, this black and white thinking goes out of the window, for good. If they have matured and grown as people and if they are happy with their own choices. If they are resentful of others, that is a problem.