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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ignore my elderly neighbour?

427 replies

RallyB · 29/06/2023 13:10

Due to his racist remarks.

He is very elderly and alone. We moved next to him literally just before Covid took hold and so for the best part of a year it was an ‘over the fence’ getting to know him situation. Polite conversations and I found out through conversation he lost his wife a year before we moved there. No children of their own. Apart from his sister he literally has no family and no living friends.

I felt so sorry for him. Due to covid me and DH would pick up essentials for him and leave it on his doorstep and when restrictions relaxed id take over home cooked meals as he said he just eats microwave meals.

He would tell me about the war, his wife, what it was like in our area back in the day, his really interesting job before retirement. A really lovely little old man who was endearing and sweet. He always asked about the children, work, my family life. We felt really lucky to have such a lovely neighbour.

Fast forward to about 8 months ago and he made a racist remark in conversation. I can’t remember what it was exactly but it shocked me, he rambles and mumbles a lot when he talks so I thought I must’ve misheard him but he then said something else (again can’t remember what). I naturally withdrew. I would check in now and again and if I saw him in the garden then I’d always say hello and ask how he’s getting on but that’s about it. It’s obvious too because he used to call every couple of weeks and I would too but I just haven’t been. I’m also back to work after mat leave so not in the house as much as I once was.

He has a carer now, I’ve noticed a man who appears to be of west Asian descent going in the house once per week.

Out in the garden today and I see my neighbour and I ask him how he’s getting on etc and how his new carer is. His response:

‘Oh yes I have a new carer. A young lad. He’s very good and managed to get me a mobility scooter which has helped. He’s a Muslim though, not that I hold that against him’

So I responded ‘of course not. Why would you?’

He ignored my question and started to talk about something else as he always does. He then said ‘I was in the hospital last week, we need to get more English nurses in there, everybody is foreign and can’t speak a word of English. They won’t let English people become nurses anymore and it’s a real shame.’

I then made my excuses and went inside the house.

AIBU to just ignore him? DH understands my point but because he’s elderly and alone he says we should still check in on him regularly and make sure he’s ok.

If I see him out in the garden I avoid going outside but harder now that the weather is nicer and DC are out playing in the garden.

OP posts:
CatchYouOnTheFlippetyFlop · 29/06/2023 14:49

RACISM IS NOT GENERATIONAL!!!!!!!!!!!

My mum is 'elderly' as are her friends.

None of them are racist.

It wasn't acceptable when the National Front were racist thugs in the 70s/80s.

He wasn't elderly then.

Racists are racist whatever age.

It is possible to be old and NOT Racist and Not a twat.

BathroomOnTheRight · 29/06/2023 14:49

I would find it hard to have anything to do with him. There is no excuse for racism. I don't buy that it's a "generational thing". I know many very elderly people. My gran was 94 when she died and she never had a racist bone in her body. Racists will be racist, and age has nothing to do with it.

Oliotya · 29/06/2023 14:50

No, I'm sorry but racism has been unacceptable for decades now. He wasn't elderly 20/30 years ago. Old age isn't an excuse. And I absolutely don't think nurses and carers should have to put up with this stuff being said to or about them.
"Not that I hold it against him" = he's clearly got some awareness, but chooses to say it anyway.
My DH and kids aren't white so I won't tolerate anyone who makes these kinds of comments.

Mooshamoo · 29/06/2023 14:51

I know if I'm in a nursing home when I'm older , I would prefer not to have and Indian or Muslim man treating me. As I wouldnt be scared of their race. But I would be scared of their reputation for treating women badly.

I wouldn't want a male health care assistant (of any race) near me at all. But women are now allowed to request this in nursing homes.

I still feel ill after my mother calling me crying and saying that the two male hca's came over and started pulling her clothes off without asking her. And that she was so terrified. And that she asked for a female HCA which was eventually granted , but she was made to feel like she was a nuisance.

Mooshamoo · 29/06/2023 14:51

*women are not allowed to request this in nursing homes

ScribblingPixie · 29/06/2023 14:53

Women aren't allowed to request female carers in nursing homes?

HarpyValley · 29/06/2023 14:53

Unless he has serious LDs that the OP hasn't mentioned that have prevented him from ever taking on new information, the tired old "cut him some slack, he's an old man" trope doesn't wash. We're many decades on from Alf Garnett, Love Thy Neighbour and casual racism being acceptable and he hasn't been an old man for that entire time. By this point in time, using racist language is a choice whatever your age.

Mooshamoo · 29/06/2023 14:56

Oliotya · 29/06/2023 14:50

No, I'm sorry but racism has been unacceptable for decades now. He wasn't elderly 20/30 years ago. Old age isn't an excuse. And I absolutely don't think nurses and carers should have to put up with this stuff being said to or about them.
"Not that I hold it against him" = he's clearly got some awareness, but chooses to say it anyway.
My DH and kids aren't white so I won't tolerate anyone who makes these kinds of comments.

Easy to say now. Let's see how you feel when you are old, sick and vulnerable in a nursing home.

And you ask the health care assistant for help, but he doesn't help you , and leaves you in pain, because he can't understand English.

My mother has a badly broken arm. She was in bed in the nursing home, whatever way she was lying, she got her broken arm trapped and stuck underneath her. Her broken arm is in an elbow cast. She was stuck in the bed and couldn't move without injuring herself. She pressed the call button for help.

The Indian man came and couldn't understand what she was saying. He then left her in pain, unable to move for hours, trapped and lying on a broken arm in bed. She said to me that she began having severe panic attacks.

Someone else came to her rescue many hours later. I think this incident has done more severe damage to her arm. And this happened because he couldn't speak English. She has now been moved to another nursing home

I will be putting a strong complaint in about the first nursing home. Her arm is further damaged because of this. They could have killed her.

stephaniezanoni · 29/06/2023 14:58

But I would be scared of their reputation for treating women badly. @Mooshamoo Can you not see that this is an extremely racist thing to say?? Holyshit! 2023 And this crap is still being spouted.
Perfect example of why racists need to be told to shut the hell up.

KR2023 · 29/06/2023 14:59

Chickenkeev · 29/06/2023 13:27

Clutching at straws here but re his nurses, he may have genuinely struggle to understand some foreign accents in hospital. It can be harder as people get older (and poss harder of hearing) to decipher accents they're not used to. And tbf that general attitude can be a bit of a generational thing. I have had to remind a (much younger) relative of mine that there are certain things that are offensive and no longer considered acceptable. Whereas 20/30 years ago people wouldn't have batted an eyelid.

I dont think you are clutching at straws. I think that is a genuine problem. If someone has a thick Glaswegian accent I am at a loss, as are some with my accent.

That along with failing hearing means that people can often prefer those of their "own". And sometimes feeling silly, being unwilling to keep asking what someone says or fear of the unknown to them causes comments about different races.

Younger generations know how to phrase things so as to not cause offence. Where will older ones like him with no kids/ grandkids to correct his speech, get to know how these days is the acceptable way to say things? They won't.

HarrisJu · 29/06/2023 14:59

My df is 92. His carer is British and local and happens to be black.
My df has never made a racist comment, however he is disgusted with his carer’s choice of football club!

happyfoot · 29/06/2023 15:00

Oliotya · 29/06/2023 14:50

No, I'm sorry but racism has been unacceptable for decades now. He wasn't elderly 20/30 years ago. Old age isn't an excuse. And I absolutely don't think nurses and carers should have to put up with this stuff being said to or about them.
"Not that I hold it against him" = he's clearly got some awareness, but chooses to say it anyway.
My DH and kids aren't white so I won't tolerate anyone who makes these kinds of comments.

Same. Being old isnt an excuse. Plus, the OP isnt responsible for him just because he is old and lonely. Yes, its nice to make chit chat with a neighbour but noone is obliged to do so- there are probably lots of elderly lonely people in her street, you cant be responsible for everyone's individual life circumstances. There might also be single parents who are struggling, people who are ill, or disabled, people who are physically fine but still live alone and are lonely etc Its always nice to have good neighbours but they arent obliged to fill in the gaps of your life that are lacking fgs.

Tippexy · 29/06/2023 15:01

Passerillage · 29/06/2023 13:59

Can’t really get het up about that really. My Dad comes out with some mad things that he is just repeating verbatim, without any critical engagement, that he has read on some right wing website like the DM.

If your neighbour says something inaccurate like that, that’s when you reply and say “almost, Mr Neighbour - English students want to study nursing but the problem is that the government won’t fund nursing students here. Isn’t that terrible? They expect them to go into at least 40k of debt to train, so now they have to hire nurses from overseas. What do you think? Should you have to pay fees to study nursing?”

You will get a lot further by engaging, surely? Not by hiding in your house.

Lol, someone has swallowed the KoolAid!

Mooshamoo · 29/06/2023 15:01

ScribblingPixie · 29/06/2023 14:53

Women aren't allowed to request female carers in nursing homes?

No. When my mother asked for a female health care assistant, she was told that there were no females hcas available on her floor.

She said they looked at her like she was causing a fuss. And told her that she would be fine with the male hcas. She stood up for herself and refused to let the two male hca's undress her. When surely it should be standard practice to ask a female patient if she is more comfortable with a female HCA

Eventually they did what my mum wanted and got a female HC assistant from another floor to undress her. But they were not nice to my mum about it at all. So many things about nursing homes are so awful. I've honestly been in tears since she went it. I feel like I'm trying to protect her from so many things. They are not great places

DollyTheFluffyOne · 29/06/2023 15:02

Let's be honest though - many people would say we need more British nurses in the NHS? It's not good to rely on other nationalities.

Hohofortherobbers · 29/06/2023 15:02

I don't think it was racist, just clumsy, he seemed to actively assuring you he is not racist. Perhaps he expects that others are racist and he was making his position clear that his carers religion is not an issue. Clumsy, but well intentioned I think.

HarpyValley · 29/06/2023 15:02

ScribblingPixie · 29/06/2023 14:53

Women aren't allowed to request female carers in nursing homes?

It's not quite as simplistic as that. NHS guidance has been rewritten to state it could be “discriminatory” for a patient to refuse to be treated by a healthcare professional of the opposite sex who is transgender unless “evidenced clinical harm may result”.

If the nursing home staff all understand what a man is and what a woman is, you would probably be fine requesting same-sex intimate care. But if it has been captured by genderwoo and if any of the staff identify as trans or non-binary, you may well find yourself badged a 'bigot' and a 'transphobe' and told to re-educate yourself.

How did NHS body get the law so badly wrong over its rules on same-sex care? | Sonia Sodha | The Guardian

How did NHS body get the law so badly wrong over its rules on same-sex care? | Sonia Sodha

New healthcare guidance could deny female patients their legitimate rights. It should be withdrawn

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/11/new-nhs-guidance-could-prevent-same-sex-care-for-women

allmyliesaretrue · 29/06/2023 15:03

Well I think it's a shame if you would shun an elderly man who you described as a, "really lovely little old man who was endearing and sweet" for stupid comments. I have known plenty of elderly people who would have said similar and they didn't mean anything negative by it. The comments he made are more like observations, comments he should really keep inside his head, but observations not abuse.

He will die, and his thoughts will die with him. What is the point in taking offence?

milveycrohn · 29/06/2023 15:04

You do not state how elderly he is, but he may also be hard of hearing, and find a strong accent difficult to understand, though this could also apply to someone from elsewhere in the UK. (which I mention as I once found it impossible to understand relatives from the north of Scotland).
I am not sure about nurses, but there are restrictions on the number of doctors trained at British medical schools. It is frankly cheaper to import doctors ready trained (usually from poorer countries, just as those from the UK, go to the US and Australia...)

Ineedsleepnotsugar · 29/06/2023 15:06

It's great that you have 'befriended' him. It would be a shame if you stepped back as he is vulnerable and possibly lonely.

I wouldn't correct him, but each time i would make my position clear, e.g ' I think it's irrelevant what ethnicity they are.."

M340 · 29/06/2023 15:08

@Mooshamoo you have to pass a secure English test to become a carer. They would've spoken adequate English.

Plus, the situation with your mum and her vulnerability with a broken arm and having a fall has no relevance to the OPs neighbour.

IsadoraQuagmire · 29/06/2023 15:08

His remarks sound perfectly innocuous to me.

Sunshineishere1988 · 29/06/2023 15:08

Theres’s no excuse and you replied as you should, but i wouldn’t ignore him. Just talk to him as usual and if he happens to make a comment, be honest and say how you feel. I dont think falling out or ignoring him will help. He is a different generation so all you can do is tell it to him straight how it is now.

Fixyourself · 29/06/2023 15:08

I would say breezily that it's not acceptable to say those remarks and change the subject. Or come back to him and say things like 'it's better to have foreign nurses than no nurses at all'. I do think dementia has a part to play.
Life can be very lonely for the elderly and sadly lots of people have no one to talk to at all.

AnybodyAnywhere · 29/06/2023 15:08

I hope that when some of you get old and things that you find totally acceptable and normal to say now have been deemed offensive that you will realise some of the truths about becoming elderly.

Your brain doesn’t assimilate new things and clings to the old. Your social filter that works between mind and mouth ceases to function. Your hearing dulls and speech is harder to understand. Most are vulnerable and are dependant on strangers who may or may not treat them well.

Being old is often a miserable, lonely and scary existence but there is little compassion or understanding for elderly people any more.

My mother was 96 and in very poor health and had 2 carers 4 times a day. Most were wonderful and very kind but often she just couldn’t understand them, she often couldn’t understand me!, and they’d get a bit short with her.

I’ve seen far more ageism on MN that I see of racism from your neighbour in your post tbh.

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