To be annoyed that SIL DD hurt my child.

[Mamabird2022]

backstory SIL has one child we will call DD1. DD1 is 2 years old, SIL treats DD1 like her best friend. There is no discipline at home which she openly admits too and says it’s her child so her choice. MIL has DD1 over once a week to visit and once every two weeks overnight. DD1 hits other children often which is why SIL stopped taking her to playgroups and instead takes her places where she can play mostly on her own.
Myself and DH have one child also who we will call DD2. DD2 is 9 months old. We visit MIL once a week and don’t allow DD2 to sleepover yet.

i was at my MIL house with my DH and DD1 was there on her fortnightly overnight stay when we arrived. We all were watching tv chatting and I was playing with DD1 while MIL spent time with DD2. My DH went to collect something for MIL at the post office and MIL had went upstairs. DD2 was sat on the floor watching tv and was playing with her toys that we had brought from home. DD1 was playing in the garden. A few minutes later DD1 comes into the livingroom where DD2 was sat playing and DD1 bends down as if she was going to give DD2 a kiss but puts her hand on her head and pushes her which caused DD2 to fall backwards and hit her head on the hardwood floor. I immediately picked my daughter up who was crying while DD1 was laughing. I shouted at her but she continued to laugh. MIL rushes down the stairs and after I told her what happened she put DD1 on the naughty step. DD1 kept getting up off the step wanting to play outside however MIL was firm with her and kept putting her back. The whole time DD2 was crying DD1 was laughing. About 20 minutes later my DH was sat on the sofa with DD2 when DD1 comes over to them. She took DD2 dummy from her so DH asked for it back as she had her own. DD1 then punched DD2 in the stomach and then began laughing again. DH told DD1 off and then moved her away from DD2. MIL was upset that DD1 was acting like this as she has never had any issues with DD2 before. We left shortly after as I was upset that my child was hurt not once but twice from a child who thought it was funny however SIL is now being funny with us because we told her child off for hitting ours. AIBU for acting the way I did?
edit the garden is completely enclosed and I could see DD1 out the window the whole time she was in the garden.
we all spent time with both children equally so it wasn’t like DD1 was left out while DD2 was there

@jazzybelle Do you mean DD1 father or DD2 father?

You weren't unreasonable to shout a name (as long as it wasnt done loud or aggressively enough to scare her). I'm not clear how she knew you did it though?

I'm not sure I'd be that happy with someone putting my child on a naughty step (maybe if they were nearer 3 and had good comprehension but not younger 2) but I understand that was your MiL? Why isnt she cutting contact with your MIL for punishing her child?

To be honest if her parenting philosophy is to laugh when her child hurts others, that's not really acceptable and you were probably always going to fall out about it one day because no one wants to be around that

OP I get people saying you don't understand the mindset of a two year old. But if she's never told no that certainly doesn't help. She isn't aware that there should be any boundaries to her behaviour.

While you might have been good friends with SIL in the past, if she's now not talking to you I would back off and don't try to rekindle that relationship. A child who is never told no is going to grow up to be a brat, even when she is quite old enough to know better. You've had advance warning of what the family situation is going to be, use it.

I would suggest you reframe 'discipline' into behaviour management.
Schools don't talk about discipline but talk instead about managing behaviour. Most parent with a baby would monitor and manage the behaviour of a two year old by making sure that they had the baby on their lap if the two year old was close by.
I think you need to recognise that you overreacted and apologise for that aspect of the incident to your SIL . If you apologise, chances are she will be more open to a discussion about the difficulties of parenting.

What if your neice hadn't been there and your daughter had just toppled over backwards and banged her head? You seem to be defending your parenting by saying that you were right there, but you weren't close enough to stop her falling, however it happened and your husband somehow allowed her to take a dummy and 'punch' a baby he was holding.

You seen to be accepting no responsibility for this despite both situations occurring firmly on your watch. Instead, you're laying the blame with a toddler instead of the three adults who should be able to risk assess better than the 2 year old.

@DrinkFeckArseBrick When SIL came to collect DD1, MIL told her about the incident and SIL knows MIL uses the naughty step as she has done with other children in the family. It’s because I shouted her child’s name and she said to my MIL that she doesn’t raise her voice at her child so no one should and now cut us off

Some 2 year olds will hit no matter how they are parented. DS is parented pretty firmly (he hears no whenever necessary and I’m not afraid to remove him from situations) and, at age 2, he had a few months of aiming hits our way when he wasn’t happy or if he was over excited. He would sometimes laugh as well - it’s not that he was horrible, it’s just they haven’t figured out their emotions yet. He doesn’t hit and certainly doesn’t laugh if he’s being told off now at age 3. I think your 2 year old niece was probably behaving within the realms of an age appropriate way. I don’t think you were at all in the wrong to discipline her though. I would have tried not to shout and I don’t think the naughty step works for one so small. Getting down to her level and firmly saying ‘no, we do not push the baby, it hurts her’, making a big fuss of your DD and then carrying on with your day would have done. As others have said, if your SIL elects to not put any boundaries in long term she is doing her child no services. It’s a shame her DD will miss out really.

@Mamabird2022 i think you’ll find that dd1 will have very few playmates if her dm refuses to correct her behaviour ever and falls out with anyone who defends their own dc.
It’s only natural to shout the dc’s name in reaction to a sudden incident.
I would let your sil carry on with her batshit hippie parenting and smile smugly when a bigger dc thumps dd1 back.

I have a 2 year old who has smacked other children on several occasions. I've spoken to nursery (where he does 9 hours pw) about it and been reassured that it's developmentally normal behaviour, learning to interact and self-regulate when frustrated. It's not malicious, just learning.

Incidentally, he is very much disciplined and actively parented!

Reading your OP I think you are ill-informed about child development and blaming a child for hurting your DD when you're the responsible adult in the room.

Also: shouting at a small child is neither effective nor appropriate. YABU.

OMG she is your niece and TWO! Get over yourself . Also naughty step isn’t widely recommended as helpful parenting these days. Particularly useless on a two year old I’d say

This is all so daft, she’s 2 fgs! Shouting at her then trying to make her sit on the naughty step (something she’s unfamiliar with at home and clearly doesn’t understand!) then being annoyed at her for taking a dummy then lashing out when it’s taken off her… it’s all just toddler behaviour, they lack self regulation. She was t just being mean.
SIL needs to get a grip, you need to wind back on the drama and everyone needs to get over it tbh.

I don’t think you did anything wrong I think you hit a nerve by saying the child’s behaviour isn’t ok and the mother doesn’t want to deal with it hence why she is taking her places without other kids ! Not helping the behaviour long term just avoiding it she sounds bad shit I would be avoiding her till she parents properly

You are unreasonable to shout at a 2 year old and I doubt the naughty step helped either. You could have explained why what she did was wrong and showed her how to make it right. Instead she got lots of attention after the first incident and wanted more. I think your SIL is overreacting as well though tbf.

I dont think anyone is coming out of this particularly well

YABU to be annoyed with a 2 year old acting like a 2 year old

Your MIL was unreasonable to tell your SiL that you shouted at the toddler if all you did was say her name in a slightly raised voice. And then to tell you that your SiL isnf coming to a party it seems like she is meddling.

Your SiL is unreasonable for not wanting to do anything to teach her child how to behave nicely and is massively over reacting to saying her daughters name loudly by cutting you off

2 year olds are literally babies. They don't understand naughty steps!

If your baby was being looked after properly, it wouldn't have happened.

@Scarlettpixie i shouted her name I wasn’t yelling at her like others are making out. I snapped at her and shouted her name. My SIL is very much aware that MIL uses the naughty step as she has done with other children in our family and has no issues with MIl using this in her house however SIL has said she would never use the naughty step in her own house.

She's two , don't leave her unsupervised. You are expecting too much understanding for her age and that's not fair on her. It's yours and mils responsibility to manage both children.

Also the laughing- children often laugh when they feel uncomfortable or afraid or uncertain. She will not have been laughing because your daughter was hurt.

It was right she was disciplined (although the word naughty is a awful word to use) but the shouting shouldn't have happened. One of the main ways children learn is through role modelling. Teaching a child it's ok to shout at someone smaller than you when you don't like their behaviour isn't great really.

If you are not confident you can manage both children together would visit separately for time being. And I would apologise for shouting and not properly supervising them both.

Your MIL/SIL are at fault here. Whoever is in charge of watching DD1 needs to get between her and the baby.

Yes, 2 year olds are unpredictable and don't understand much, but it's unclear why this one is essentially being left as a "free agent" to damage the baby.

You're DD2's parent so you should be gently batting away DD1's hands when she comes near your little one, like you would an over-enthusiastic toddler at a playgroup who tries to stick their fingers in your baby's eyes.

The others need to watch DD1 and you need to safeguard the baby, then she won't get a chance to hurt her.

There are two possible explanations:

1: SIL doesn't like how you dealt with the situation and/or your niece is scared off you.

2: SIL is insane and should start shouting at her child immediately because that solves all toddler behaviour problems.

29 years later I still remember my 2 year old niece being allowed to hit, bite and be a shit to my 10 month old. I stepped in every single time as most parents would do. I always find it interesting on these threads that there’s comments like ‘she/he is 2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9’ I still don’t cringe. And no not all 2 year olds behave like the OP described.

I want to point out again that both children were not unsupervised. My child was sat on the floor playing with her toys while I was sat on the sofa. My MIL was watching DD1 however went upstairs. She was not gone for longer than a couple minutes when this all happened. I didn’t catch my daughter quick enough and I know these things happen as DD1 is only a child herself. I’m a stay at home mam like I guess some of you are. I am
fortunate that my DH works as many hours as he does to allow me to be home for as long as I have been. My MIL house is the only time I get to have 5 minute to myself to have a cup of tea. I was literally on the sofa with my daughter on the floor close to me while I had a cup of tea. My point was is SIL being unreasonable for the way she is acting after this incident when all I did was shout the child’s name.

Crikey! I'm surprised at the number of posters excusing the two year old's behaviour.

@Mamabird2022 I don't think you are being PFB at all.

@DataNotLore i saw DD1 yesterday when I popped into my MIL to drop something off and she was not scared of me. What scared 2 year old comes running to you shouting auntie auntie and gives out kisses?

I don't think you were wrong to raise your voice at the 2yo for deliberately hitting (I say this as a mum of a 2yo myself).

However yabu for not keeping your 9mo out of arms reach. Just like if there had been a dog roaming around the house. The baby needs to be completely out of reach if you know the 2yo can be unpredictable.

My biggest question is why are you so upset about this? If I were you I'd want to keep my dd away from the cousin who hits, until they're both older. It's a good thing she won't be at the party, it'll be easier to keep your dd safe. Everybody wins.

One of my nct friends had quite a snatchy-grabby boy and my dd wasn't getting anything out of their playdates together so I just stopped arranging any. Problem solved

Or option 3: SIL might have a point that shouting isn't effective, but is being way OTT and unrealistic in her assumption that nobody will ever do it.

I don't think it's all that helpful of people to keep going on about how shouting doesn't work, as if that makes totally cutting somebody off for doing so once on a pretty low level is a reasonable and rational reaction.