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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

There are two sexes…

635 replies

ItJustFellOutLikeWordVomit · 23/06/2023 13:34

Well just that really….I have gay, straight, bi sexual and transsexual friends and absolutely have no problem with that, very much a do what makes you happy person.

Butttt….AIBU to think the world is going a bit mad with all the non-female, cis female and whatever other labels are floating about. I’m a woman and that’s that, you are either biologically a male or biologically a female and I don’t mean that in an insensitive way dress how you like and date who you like but surely we can’t just be inventing different/new sexes and telling straight women they are no longer a woman they are now XYZ?

OP posts:
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TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 23/06/2023 13:57

Sistanotcista · 23/06/2023 13:56

This is what Wikipedia says: "Semenya is an intersex woman,[8] with 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency,[9] assigned female at birth,[10] with XY chromosomes and natural heterogametic testosterone level.[11][12][13][14] Following her victory at the 2009 World Championships, she was made to undergo sex testing, and cleared to return to competition the following year.[15][16] In 2019, new World Athletics rules came into force preventing women like Semenya from participating in 400m, 800m, and 1500m events in the female classification unless they take medication to suppress their testosterone levels. In 2021, she filed an appeal with the European Court of Human Rights against the restrictions.[17]"

Ah Wikipedia, that excellent soure of great knowledge 👏

Brefugee · 23/06/2023 13:58

Mamabear04 · 23/06/2023 13:47

Some people are intersex so there are three sexes, female, male and intersex. Gender is a whole other story.

people with DSDs have asked not to be referred to as "intersex".
they have also asked not to be used as examples in arguments regarding gender.

tonystarksrighthand · 23/06/2023 13:58

When we are all dead and buried. We are only 1 of 2 sexes. Absolute fact. We are not non binary or a fucking cat.

I'm sick of it and it's beyond insulting to women. I'm perimenopausal and if a man in a dress allegedly feels like he/she/whatever is going through the menopause .... then literally just fuck off. I have not one ounce of time for it.

Sistanotcista · 23/06/2023 13:58

Feel free to provide an alternative source. I'm happy to be educated :)

Booklover40 · 23/06/2023 13:58

Mamabear04 · 23/06/2023 13:51

I'm not an expert but I thought it was a case of the inner organs didn't match up with the outer ones. Maybe I'm wrong though. I know countries like India and Thailand recognise a third sex and have done for a long time.

Even if you were right (which you're not) you are talking about people with a condition which affects, I believe, about 0.018% of the population.

I don't think these people are the ones the OP if referring to ie the ones that put on a wig, call themselves Nancy and try to enter women's spaces and sports competitions

LimitIsUp · 23/06/2023 13:59

medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001669.htm

For those questioning intersex

TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 23/06/2023 13:59

Phos · 23/06/2023 13:57

There are two sexes. It’s a biological category depending on your reproductive organs and is determined by your genes. There are rare cases of intersexuality. The vast vast majority of us are male or female. I absolutely hate the term “assigned fe/male at birth” It’s as if up till that point it could have gone either way, and that it could even change at some point. It’s been determined for months by then and you cannot change your sex.

Gender however, is a different and very difficult concept right now. I’m not really sure how I feel. I mean if someone really wants to live as the opposite gender or doesn’t feel like being either then alright do that, but yeah we’ve ended up with a lot of new labels and potentially a dangerous situation where being “non-cis” is the trendy thing to be among young people.

The vast majority of us are me or female?
What sex are the rest?

Sistanotcista · 23/06/2023 13:59

Sistanotcista · 23/06/2023 13:58

Feel free to provide an alternative source. I'm happy to be educated :)

@TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening

BMW6 · 23/06/2023 14:00

viques · 23/06/2023 13:53

No, some people might be born with ambiguous external genitals, and other DSD but a chromosome test will establish what sex they are.

So what does intersex look like?

  1. a clitoris that's larger than expected.
  2. a penis that's smaller than expected.
  3. no vaginal opening.
  4. a penis without a urethra opening at the tip (the opening might instead be on the underside)
  5. labia that are closed or otherwise resemble a scrotum.
  6. a scrotum that is empty and resembles labia.
www.healthline.com › baby

A chromosome test will identify whether such a child is male or female.

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 23/06/2023 14:00

TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 23/06/2023 13:57

Ah Wikipedia, that excellent soure of great knowledge 👏

They do at least acknowledge the chromosomes are xy which does make Caster male. It's all just word salad to confuse

Orangetang · 23/06/2023 14:00

Don’t know if you meant to put XYZ as an alternative to XX and XY, but I had a good chuckle at that pun 🙂

Bromptotoo · 23/06/2023 14:01

TheShellBeach · 23/06/2023 13:51

Not true.
Everyone is born either male or female.

Everyone is treated as male or female at birth depending on genitalia etc. If it's not clear then somebody will make an informed judgement. If there's no penis then that judgement is likely to be a tick in the girl/female box.

Later down the line, when puberty should be kicking in, some will prove to have been wrongly called at birth. Medical and social science will give us the tools to deal with it.

TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 23/06/2023 14:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

AngelinaFibres · 23/06/2023 14:01

Rainrainstayawaytilseptember · 23/06/2023 13:47

Not sure how my ndn's dc will get a driving licence as they are now a cat apparently

.
Bonkers.

My son works with a woman who identifies as a bat. She's also non binary. Who knew bats could be non binary....and work in finance

FOJN · 23/06/2023 14:01

Sistanotcista · 23/06/2023 13:56

This is what Wikipedia says: "Semenya is an intersex woman,[8] with 5α-Reductase 2 deficiency,[9] assigned female at birth,[10] with XY chromosomes and natural heterogametic testosterone level.[11][12][13][14] Following her victory at the 2009 World Championships, she was made to undergo sex testing, and cleared to return to competition the following year.[15][16] In 2019, new World Athletics rules came into force preventing women like Semenya from participating in 400m, 800m, and 1500m events in the female classification unless they take medication to suppress their testosterone levels. In 2021, she filed an appeal with the European Court of Human Rights against the restrictions.[17]"

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/5-alpha-reductase-deficiency/

Ah bless woke wiki. 5 alpha reductase 2 deficiency is only found in biological males. Caster Semenya has a rare DSD but is not and "intersex woman".

5-alpha reductase deficiency: MedlinePlus Genetics

5-alpha reductase deficiency is a condition that affects male sexual development before birth and during puberty. Explore symptoms, inheritance, genetics of this condition.

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/5-alpha-reductase-deficiency

Tippingadvice · 23/06/2023 14:01

Please can posters use DSD not the I word. NHS uses DSD and it is what people with DSD call themselves.

We all use Downs Syndrome not the M word. It’s only on the 1970s that the medical profession formally changed to Downs Syndrome. No one today would use the M word the same applies to the I word.

Caster Semenya allegedly has DSD 46 XY, this means as every cell in their body has xy cells I.e. male.

I expect this thread to be moved due to the subject matter.

TheShellBeach · 23/06/2023 14:01

BaronessEllarawrosaurus · 23/06/2023 14:00

They do at least acknowledge the chromosomes are xy which does make Caster male. It's all just word salad to confuse

I was just about to say that.
He's a man. He has XY chromosomes.

BMW6 · 23/06/2023 14:01

Sorry viques I quoted your post by mistake, meant to quote the one claiming 3 sexes. Doh 😣

hollyblueivy · 23/06/2023 14:02

I

Agree

Two sexes only

Full stop

.

Beautiful3 · 23/06/2023 14:02

Yes absolutely right.

jonahjones · 23/06/2023 14:02

TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 23/06/2023 13:45

Can you please explain this.
<gets popcorn>

I personally know of 2 babies now young adults that were born 'intersex' with ambiguous genitalia. After further investigations it was decided one child had more male characteristics and the other child more female. apparently as many as 1 in 1000 babies are born this way but it is (was) such a taboo that was never spoken about.
lady Colin Campbell was born this way too.
So this is probably what the poster means by some people are born neither male or female.

pues · 23/06/2023 14:03

@Sistanotcista
Please don't tell me that you believe Wikipedia Grin
That incredible source of info that can be edited by...anyone.

Flippper · 23/06/2023 14:03

I've never posted on a thread like this before but I read a buzzfeed article recently about Sam Smith, who is non-binary. I found it very hard to look at him, a big bloke with facial hair, and understand why he thinks he is no closer to male than I am, a woman who has been through childbirth, periods, lived a life being 5'4 and subconsciously fearing for my safety late at night. I just found it hard to compute. Those things are part of being a woman to me - clearly not exclusively what being a woman involves, just some examples of many - and the opposite of that is being a man. I am really trying to question my internal biases but then I start questioning if I should or not.

TastesLikeStrawberriesOnASummerEvening · 23/06/2023 14:03

jonahjones · 23/06/2023 14:02

I personally know of 2 babies now young adults that were born 'intersex' with ambiguous genitalia. After further investigations it was decided one child had more male characteristics and the other child more female. apparently as many as 1 in 1000 babies are born this way but it is (was) such a taboo that was never spoken about.
lady Colin Campbell was born this way too.
So this is probably what the poster means by some people are born neither male or female.

Oh gawd.

Sistanotcista · 23/06/2023 14:03

@FOJN - thank you; that is very interesting