To think that people like anti-abortionist Kristan Hawkins are the enemy of women and feminism everywhere

[Purplefoxes]

Maybe extreme but..I was just reading this BBC article (link below) on Kristan Hawkins and it made my blood boil as I am pro choice. She is the woman from the US organisation Students for Life of America and has been instrumental in over turning Roe v Wade. She is now on the back of this 'success' campaigning for total abortion ban across America . The overturning of Roe V Wade is a decision which will likely result in the death or debilitation of many pregnant women who either cannot access much needed abortions for health reasons or try to access back street illegal abortions or could even commit suicide as a result. Not to mention there could be many unwanted children dumped into the care system or brought up in abusive environments. I just cannot fathom why anyone, let alone a woman would do this. I'm sure if it was one of her kids who was pregnant and needed a medical abortion to save their life she'd change her tune! How blinkered does a person have to be to not think of the impact of banning abortion on both women and children! And how has such medieval policy been allowed to happen in modern day America..could this happen in the UK?! Are we losing our rights as women? When did the life of a fetus become more important than the life of its mother?

BBC article

If someone is suicidal give them counselling and therapy. I don't think mental health issues is a valid reason to kill a baby.

She specifically said the 10 year old girl in Ohio should not have been able to have an abortion.

Plenty of people do though, ignoring your incorrect use of the term "kill a baby" which is not, at all, what abortion is.

Why are you so arrogant to think that your opinion on abortion is more important than the view of the actual person who is pregnant?

If someone is suicidal due to body dismorphia. We don't perform plastic surgery on them so they look like how they want to look. We give them counselling

Body dysmorpĥia is a mental health issue. Pregnancy isn't. The solution to an unwanted pregnancy is abortion , because the abortion removes the cause of the suicidal and depressive feeling. Abortion regret is rare. Women must always have the choice. The life of the woman who is already here and the lives of all those who would be adversely affected by continuing the pregnancy must always come first.

I've made the same point again and again it's not okay to kill the baby/fetus due to depressive feelings. We should offer support and counselling to the mother to help her resolve the feelings.

I think the mother and the baby/fetus both have the right to be alive and to grow up etc .

And this is where we will always disagree. You seem to think that not wanting to be pregnant is a mental aberration requiring treatment. I think that coercing a woman into giving birth is evil.

The beauty of the pro-choice standpoint being, of course, that both of those options are perfectly valid.

Don't like abortions? Great, you don't have to have one.
Need a safe abortion? Yes, that option is available.

Vs

Nobody can have a safe abortion.
Women die due to unsafe abortions.

I understand people may not want to be pregnant. That's fine that's understandable, you can make choices to make sure that you don't end up impregnated. But thing is that once it happens a new life has been created.

I can use emotive language and saying "killing unborn babies" is evil. The fetus/baby/whatever is just a human in an early form of development.

Thing is, you can't always make choices to make sure you aren't impregnated. Contraception fails - yes, even doubling up fails. Your partner refuses to use it. Not all women can use the pill or a coil without major side effects. Men don't like condoms and fear vasectomy, because it can go wrong or because they're selfish. Women of childbearing age are routinely denied sterilisation because the medical establishment patronised them and refuses 'in case the little woman changes her mind'. You make it seem so simple - you forced birthers always do.

The real world is very different.

A ten year old can give birth and survive. So no, in this case she wouldn't.

If it all fails. You have to accept the consequences. A new life has been created. You shouldn't be allowed to kill the unborn because it inconveniences you. One of my younger siblings was unplanned and my mum was like "he was a blessing". I love my brother very much.

"Condoms + combined birth control pill or patch or ring = 1.6/100 chance of conceiving. "

Contraception is effective. There is always abstinence or non PIV sex.

People make mistakes.

The punishment for that should not be to be forced through pregnancy. Obviously.

And should rape victims just accept the consequences?

My response to this is that the unborn shouldn't be punished and killed.

Obviously rape is horrific and disgusting. From what I've read it's a very small % of the total abortions.

The reason I came to my prolife views was me sitting down and assessing the morality behind it.

The unborn child shouldn't be punished for the crimes of the father (who is a disgusting human being).

Can we just leave the discussion now? I know that no one's going to change their mind.

In a marriage, should the man just accept that PIV sex is not on offer if he refuses a vasectomy? Because that sort of thing impacts a relationship and thereby the children.

But you hardliners only care about the foetus, not about anyone else.

You can't kill and punish a random collection of unthinking, unfeeling cells.

But the women should be punished?

Why does it matter what percentage it is? Whether it's a single case or a million, it's horrific for a woman or girl to have to carry and give birth to her rapists baby but you think she should be forced.

This is an internet forum, discussion is the whole point. You clicked on this thread, you can leave any time.

And a pregnancy isn't always a blessing. A good friend of mine had horrible HG for the entirety of both her pregnancies, requiring hospital treatment multiple times in both cases. She wanted those babies. Imagine putting a woman through that when she doesn't want the pregnancy. I call that cruelty. I call that torture. I condemn from the bottom of my heart anyone who would condone it.

But the woman should be punished? Her body gets to be violated not once but twice?

How do you know it's a very small number? Do you think those seeking out an abortion due to rape are generally very open about it?

Yes I agree . If some one is anti abortion then obviously they won't have an abortion. That's fine . I'm very supportive of that. If the child is raised by a single parent or in a different family grouping also fine . But why must they inflict their views on everyone else? Even making women and staff uncomfortable, vistimised and driven underground ? That's the worst part .

There’s no point arguing with someone that has the IQ of a sprout unfortunately. I always find these ejits tend to be very hard of thinking, to put it kindly :).

They also tend to be utterly lacking in empathy and compassion.

Interesting article by Kathleen Stock about the contradictions in positions taken on questions of reproduction - abortion, contraception and surrogacy.

https://unherd.com/2023/06/the-perils-of-reproductive-extremism/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups%5B0%5D=18743&tl_period_type=3