To think that people like anti-abortionist Kristan Hawkins are the enemy of women and feminism everywhere

[Purplefoxes]

Maybe extreme but..I was just reading this BBC article (link below) on Kristan Hawkins and it made my blood boil as I am pro choice. She is the woman from the US organisation Students for Life of America and has been instrumental in over turning Roe v Wade. She is now on the back of this 'success' campaigning for total abortion ban across America . The overturning of Roe V Wade is a decision which will likely result in the death or debilitation of many pregnant women who either cannot access much needed abortions for health reasons or try to access back street illegal abortions or could even commit suicide as a result. Not to mention there could be many unwanted children dumped into the care system or brought up in abusive environments. I just cannot fathom why anyone, let alone a woman would do this. I'm sure if it was one of her kids who was pregnant and needed a medical abortion to save their life she'd change her tune! How blinkered does a person have to be to not think of the impact of banning abortion on both women and children! And how has such medieval policy been allowed to happen in modern day America..could this happen in the UK?! Are we losing our rights as women? When did the life of a fetus become more important than the life of its mother?

BBC article

It’s ok. Our fabulous welfare state will take care of them

Have you got a source for that very sad story?

TW for lies about abortion Because lots of terrible stories about abortion come out of the US - like the doctor who was splashed all over the internet because she supposedly 'admitted' that she cuts babies vocal cords so they can't scream during late term abortions. When what she'd actually said was she'd dissect the umbilical cord in a late term abortion.

Even if the dad did cry and sob, it isn't his decision. There's a man in Texas who is suing his soon to be ex and the clinic because she had an abortion. Needless to say there was a long history of abuse. Giving men any kind of say means women will be further abused and controlled. That is really what's sad.

I had an ectopic pregnancy last year. It was a tubal ectopic and ruptured when I was 7+5. I nearly died and needed emergency surgery to remove my fallopian tube and save my life. I wanted that baby desperately. I should have a 3 week old baby now, instead, I have no baby. Just 3 scars from surgery. Thankfully, I am still here to tell my tale. My baby couldn't be saved but fortunately I lived in the UK in 2022 and I could be saved and no-one was moralising about 'God's will' or 'natures way' and questioning the necessity of acting.

I fear that abortion bans and restrictions will cause medics to pause before they act, for fear of prosecution and women and girls will die. Whether that action is to treat miscarriage, pregnancy complications or ectopics. I fear miscarriage will increasingly be viewed with suspicion and women will delay seeking medical care in case they miscarry and are accused of having had an abortion (sadly this happens in some countries).

I also fear it will lead to increasing negative health outcomes for women. I have an inflammatory arthritis. Many women in the US have been struggling to access methotrexate, commonly used to treat inflammatory arthritis, since Roe v Wade was overturned. Methotrexate is used to treat some ectopic pregnancies and I believe can also be used in abortions for pregnancies in utero. Doctors are scared to prescribe in case the woman accidentally falls pregnant, miscarried and they are prosecuted.

Exactly. I’ve read a situation where a man managed to persuade his ex not to have the abortion. She agreed on the condition that he will take the baby, and she will surrender all parental rights. He agreed to that condition.

After a year, the ulterior motive came out. He genuinely believed that after having the baby, she would want to keep him. Instead she stuck to her promise, signed off all rights and fucked off. He resented her. He resented his son because he lost all of his free time.

If someone has emotional trauma due to adoption perhaps we as a society should help them deal with it via therapy etc. If someone is dealing with significant trauma, we don't say "hmm maybe you just shouldn't be alive"

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2009/11/adopted_kids_are_happy_healthy.html#:~:text=Books%20Podcast-,Most%20Adopted%20Children%20Are%20Happy%2C%20Healthy%20%3A%20Shots%20%2D%20Health%20News,being%2C%20a%20federal%20study%20shows.

It still needs to be a choice made by the woman. Like pp said, women are not incubators for people who want to adopt.

That's American. Are you an American adopter or a UK adopter? Because ideas and practices around adoption are quite different in America than they are here.

I agree with you completely, those (supposedly?) unintended consequences are playing out already, and more will follow.

The tragic unintended consequences of abortion bans are already playing out in the US, Poland , El Salvador and other places. Women are dying because doctors are too afraid of prosecution to act early enough. Women are being imprisoned for having miscarriages. And you can write guidelines and exemptions until you're blue in the face but if you legislate to instil fear then you will reap the consequences. The people who want abortion banned condone and encourage this and claim the moral high ground. You couldn't make it up.

Fair enough. The issue is that this isn’t included in a total ban (and that’s what this woman wants).

@eggsbenedict23
For me. It would only be in the case where the mothers life was in danger and where the pregnancy would kill her.

So not even for catastrophic birth defects?
The problem with 'only when the mothers life is at risk' is that medical staff have to let things get too far before they act, and women die as a result.

Everything you write EggsB shouts about your contempt for women. I find the hurt and pain you are happy to impose on others scary. You are only a step away from ‘every sperm is sacred’. Thankfully you are, in the uk at least, entirely irrelevant.

Though I would question how accurate that data is considering the majority of rapes go unreported.

I don't know how anyone can oppose abortions morally in a medical emergency. What's her argument?

There isn’t really one apart from it’s a never. I think only if the baby is actually dead already.

It was the 'Heartbeat Rule' which killed that poor woman in Ireland and which many American hospitals (especially in Texas) now have to adhere to

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20321741

As the fetus dies it poisons the mother. Sepsis can wreck your health even if it doesn't kill you and needs urgent treatment - playing Russian Roulette with someone's life isn't something a doctor should do.

Lets not forget the woman who was refused an 'abortion' for a partial molar pregnancy, because the tumour still had a fetal heartbeat.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/05/01/1172973274/oklahoma-abortion-ban-exception-life-of-mother-molar-pregnancy

Going by the website, it seems that they think an abortion is never medically necessary, and if a woman claims it is she's lying because she doesn't want to deal with morning sickness or something.

https://studentsforlife.org/2022/06/14/why-you-should-reject-rape-incest-life-of-the-mother-exceptions/

Although given that this is coming from someone who thinks that the body prevents pregnancy in cases of rape, I'd suggest biology isn't their strongest subject.

Just read this. She basically says removing the fetus because it's medically necessary it's a procedure that isn't called an abortion. It's something else?

Which is bullshit. It's an abortion. It's amazing, the mental gymnastics the anti abortionists put themselves through to justify their positions.

And of course this piece of work does still think that the raped 10 year old in Ohio should have been made to give birth.

Wouldn't a medical exemption be granted for a 10 year old?

It's forced birth not pro life, because no thought appears to be given to the lives the baby, mother or other children will have.
If they were really pro life they would actively campaign & lobby the government for better access to contraception, maternity care, maternity leave with pay, especially in America, affordable, easily available childcare, reform of tax system, benefits,better support for women living in abusive relationships & so on. In many cases pro life advocates disappear when the baby is delivered.