To think that people like anti-abortionist Kristan Hawkins are the enemy of women and feminism everywhere

[Purplefoxes]

Maybe extreme but..I was just reading this BBC article (link below) on Kristan Hawkins and it made my blood boil as I am pro choice. She is the woman from the US organisation Students for Life of America and has been instrumental in over turning Roe v Wade. She is now on the back of this 'success' campaigning for total abortion ban across America . The overturning of Roe V Wade is a decision which will likely result in the death or debilitation of many pregnant women who either cannot access much needed abortions for health reasons or try to access back street illegal abortions or could even commit suicide as a result. Not to mention there could be many unwanted children dumped into the care system or brought up in abusive environments. I just cannot fathom why anyone, let alone a woman would do this. I'm sure if it was one of her kids who was pregnant and needed a medical abortion to save their life she'd change her tune! How blinkered does a person have to be to not think of the impact of banning abortion on both women and children! And how has such medieval policy been allowed to happen in modern day America..could this happen in the UK?! Are we losing our rights as women? When did the life of a fetus become more important than the life of its mother?

BBC article

I can’t understand why she’s also against contraception surely she knows good contraception knowledge brings down the rate of abortion.
I’m assuming she’s one of those no pre marital sex types but she can’t except married women to just happily be broodmares until menopause or their bodies give out

I completely disagree with her but I find her reasoning mostly internally consistent. I don’t see the big deal: in a pluralistic society you actively want a diversity of views. The key thing is that democratic processes work to amplify or sideline them depending on the majority view.

This I do agree with. Very few actually adopt.

Well that’s nuts!

There are already children waiting to be adopted; other women's uteruses are not handy breeding vessels for infertile people.

What useful purpose do you think that forcing women and girls to continue through an unwanted pregnancy and then give birth serves, especially given that some will not survive it?

Agree. That's the worrying thing; the future landscape for our daughters.

Once you see things like that’s it’s very hard to ‘un-believe’. It’s why there are so many conspiracy theories. Even if the baby isn’t in pain it’s obviously not a nice thought.

Again, it's consistent given the belief of many, particularly US, extreme pro-lifers that many forms of non-barrier contraception may cause a fertilised egg to be expelled = abortion in their eyes.

She's likely ok with condoms, diaphragms, natural family planning methods and sterilisation.

Totally agree with you @AnorLondo

dont want an abortion, dont fucking have one, but get your hands of MY WOMB!!

Again, for true believers anything that furthers the cause is acceptable, even if in other circumstances it would be against their moral principles.

An aquaintance was told by a nun at her school back in the 80s that this nun had personally gone down to the furnace room of a local maternity hospital and seen a bag of aborted fetuses moving because they were still alive. Now clearly that's a massive pack of lies - but acquaintance still believed her and was retelling the story 30 years later.

People are less keen to adopt children as likely to have problems caused by chaotic backgrounds. Many people would adopt newborns. As I said I believe in alot more support for women who have unplanned pregnancies (this has happened to me at age 48 and there was no support apart from offering an abortion).

I think the issue around this is that some anti-abortion campaigners (including this woman I suspect) genuinely believe that these are like miniature babies who happen to live inside a woman. If you genuinely held that belief, it definitely follows that abortion would be abhorrent and that you'd campaign to stop it.

However, for me (and most pro-choice folk I guess) this isn't what we believe to be true. I would view a cluster of cells/fetus as just something that had the potential to become a baby in the right circumstances - but not a baby.

I don't know what the answer is, and there are certainly plenty who are against abortion to control women! But I do see that if you really think that it's a tiny baby with a compete set of emotions and pain receptors, you would protest that!

Ich spreche kein Deutsch.

She's not pro the life of women who die because they can't get abortions.

Some people just like telling others what to do with their sex lives.

And some people like labelling people and are incur🙄ious about other viewpoints.

@starrynight21 Good education is definitely needed. However I don't believe that alone is enough to stop unwanted pregnancies and it will not stop medical emergencies where the mother (and fetus!) could die if the pregnancy continues e.g. ectopics one example but there are many others. Education won't completely stop rape. Contraception is needed yes but many hardline anti-abortionists are even opposed to that! Also contraception has been around for a good while now, no method is 100 percent effective even when it is used. Many people even see the morning after pill as an abortion! (It isn't). I agree with another poster who said it's funny how a lot of the people who are so adamant abortion kills children have no strong feelings towards the unwanted children in the care system. Would you foster those children? What about the ones born who will have to remain on life support or in extreme pain due to life limiting disability? Is that still a triumph that they were 'saved' even though they will now suffer every day of their life? Do you really think the abortion laws will save those children or do you think those determined will still seek a much more brutal illegal abortion...which is how it was in the 1950s and the very reason legislation was brought it the first place?

Absolutely agree, its almost like its not really about the kids but about controlling women.

@cantab94 that isn't what I asked though, is it?

Are you condoning forcing women and girls who don't want to be pregnant to continue with that pregnancy and birth when they are absolutely clear (as I would be, no 'support' necessary) that they don't want to do so?

In other words, are you saying that women should not have the final say in what happens to their bodies, and if so, who do you think ought to get to decide for them?

I can't say whether I'm incur🙄ious because I don't know what that means. But are you seriously denying that people want to control others sex lives?

Really? A baby who is so severely disabled they will spend their life in hospital hooked up to machines? A baby who will never walk, talk grow up or have any quality of life... You think people are queuing up for adopting babies like this? Would you? What about the ridiculous amounts of children who need fostering right now? Or they don't matter once they stop being a baby?

Some people may do, I'm denying that that's the main motivation of people who are pro life or want to lower the limit - the UK limit is higher than most countries.

For all those banging on about abortion being only for the feckless and stupid... what about this article in the Guardian about two women, both carrying wanted pregnancies, who were forced to continue with unsustainable pregnancies, undergo traumatic births which resulted in dead babies anyway and almost killed one of the women in question?

Where is your event horizon in these cases?

Ug @PowerhouseOfTheCell I absolutely agree. If she chooses that for herself great. But don't enforce your wishes on other women in different situations.

I'm usually a pacifist I'd happily give her a punch in the chops.

As someone who needed a medical abortion (ectopic) (I've said this loads on here, sorry if you've seen me moan about it previously) the heartbreak of losing your much wanted pregnancy is quite enough without some fuckwit making you feel like you're as culpable as rose west for killing your own children.

As someone who is pro choice and thinks nobody should hold agency over a woman's body besides that woman, I hope anyone who's had an abortion for any fucking reason, never let's this ..thing, upset them.

She hates women. Anyone who has an issue with abortion does and I'll argue that with anyone.

Especially today, I'm in a horrible mood.

That doesn't apply to the vast amount of abortions. As I said I had an unwanted pregnancy at 48 so of course I considered all of that given the higher risks. I realised I could not have an abortion. Other people have a different view and that is fine but people should stop demonising those with different views or ascribing bad motives to them - it is becoming alot more common.