To think that secondary school uniform rules are ridiculous?

[TrulyFlumptious]

Just for transparency, my DC are nursery and primary school age, so I currently have no skin in this game.

When I was in school (I’m in my late 30s, for reference) primary and secondary uniforms were very similar. Shirt and tie, branded cardi/jumper, plain black shoes and black or grey skirt/trousers. This was the standard from reception up to year 11.

Over the years, primary uniforms have gotten a bit more casual. Branded polo tops in place of shirts and ties seem to be the standard now. I have 3 primary schools near me and I can’t remember the last time I saw a small child in a shirt and tie.

However secondaries, even the local community schools, now seem to be channelling private school style uniforms as standard. My old school now insists on blazers, school issue tights, and uniform skirts in a school-particular check pattern. This seems to be standard process across most senior schools now. You also barely go a week without seeing a story about a child getting into trouble for not wearing the uniform tights, being put in a weeks isolation for forgetting their jumper, or children being forced to keep their blazers on in heatwaves whilst their teachers are in short sleeves or summer dresses.

AIBU to think this is completely ridiculous and getting out of hand? The argument of “this is preparing them for work” is totally arbitrary now - the world has changed, especially since covid, and barely anyone wears a shirt, tie or blazer to work any more. Most office workers are in smart casual and can adapt their dress for their own comfort levels, and even in the jobs that do require uniform it usually consists of branded polos/tees, or a tunic. What exactly are these students being “prepared” for? Yes, there should be some uniform rules in place to ensure students are not inappropriately dressed, but as far as I can see, these ridiculously over-complicated uniforms are out of touch, out of date, and do not fit in with modern society. I feel they are used simply as a means of control.

And don’t even get me started on the cost.

What do you think?

YANBU – senior school uniforms are ridiculously over-complicated, out of touch, and need to go back to basics
YABU – school uniforms are as strict and complicated as they should be.

Who are you asking? If me then as I said I would cope fine. People generally do when they are faced with a preference that is different to their first choice. I would have an extra chore on my hands that I would prefer not to have and I would be a bit disappointed not to see DC in a nice uniform. Mildly inconvenienced. Not the terrible disaster you seem determined it would make me feel I was living.

Well, for a start in terms of my 2 jobs, one of which is NHS, I'd still have to wear a uniform.
As far as school is concerned, obviously I wouldn't have an issue. I'm not fanatical or OCD about it. But we're not in Germany or the Netherlands. We're in the UK and live by the rules of this country.
As I've said, I don't agree with expensive uniform. I'd be happy with polo shirts and sweatshirts, etc.
I think sixtth form students probably get more wear from their clothes then pre-16 because they're not rolling around the school field playing football at lunchtime or going to the park after school. To that extent I do regard school uniform as expendable; my DD's are the same as I was in that skirts get ripped on a weekly basis from running around so I have to sew them up, don't get me started on holes in tights.

YANBU. The school in the next town over have a hoodie in a nice colour with a school logo as their uniform, and I think it looks great. The girls wear it with leggings, and the boys tend to wear black trousers or joggers. Both wear trainers. They look comfortable, and like kids.

My nearer school has a shirt, tie and v-neck. I think it looks shit. The boys look like miniature double glazing salesmen, and the girls are in super short skirts, and look like they are off to a waitressing shift.

My old school now insists on blazers, school issue tights, and uniform skirts in a school-particular check pattern.

• *II's not really a new thing. That sounds like my uniform when I was at (state) school. I'm 52. I'm not actually in favour of uniform at all though. Why the UK has to continue with school uniform when virtually all the rest of Europe manages perfectly fine without it, goodness knows. The claim that it helps prepare them for the professional world of work is ridiculous, and makes schools look stuffy and behind the times, when so many workplaces dress down and have WFH. Besides, they can wear what they like if they go to college or university.

The only skill that I learned from wearing school uniform that I wouldn’t have otherwise learnt is how to tie a tie. My DC’s school has Velcro ties, so they don’t even learn that.

i’m pretty sure only the Armed Forces have stricter uniform policy, and I bet they provide most of it.

Why would you have an extra chore? You wouldn’t have to go out to buy extra clothes on at least 2 specific occasions in your child’s life.when, presumably, they already have enough clothes to keep them going. Then you wouldn’t have to ensure that these extra clothes were washed and dried Monday to Friday knowing that none of their other clothes will do.

Choosing is the chore! A small one but an annoying one when it was my clothes and a source of contention when choosing for DC.

Choosing doesn't have to be a chore, just grab whatever is on top of the pile on the shelf/in the drawer/closest item hanging up.

I like the way it removes any ambiguity.

When i was at school the "cool" kids just mercilessly bullied anyone who didn't have the "right" brand of fashion trousers/bum length skirt/expensive branded coat/ 4 inch heeled kickers shoes. Now at our local school, you wear the school skirt. Its knee length and a dodgy kilt pattern so its impossible to replace it with a fashionable equivalent or for half the richest kids to have branded/expensive versions. There's a thriving second hand market & lots give away outgrown for free, so you can kit kids out without spending loads.

Regardless, it was still something I would rather have not bothered with. In 6th form I would have preferred uniform and not to have to think about it. A preference, that's all.

Both. My son really disliked the fact he had to wear a tie, and I have a general dislike of the stricter uniforms with blazers and other expensive items.
Also having to ask if you can take it off when it's 30 degrees outside, although my son's school thankfully wasn't quite that petty,

I think bullying is less of an issue with uniform, but you still know who has the bobbly outgrown cardigan and the one who has a new one every year. But it definitely helps get rid of those sorts of issues.

I have noticed this. When I went to secondary it was a school-issue striped short-sleeved shirt with a logo blue jumper over the top. No ties, no blazers. Now they all seem to wear blazers around here and t-shirts and ties even for girls, shirts and ties are generally a masculine type of formal/work dress.

Considering sending DD to the only school in the area that doesn't make girls wear shirts and ties! Looked for ones that don't wear blazers, none!

@lieselotte you see, I don't believe that uniform helps with bullying in any way. If it did, we would see higher rates of bullying in countries where there is no uniform - we don't.

What helps with bullying is schools tackling it. My school in the Netherlands came down hard on it. So did my DC's secondary (who were relatively relaxed about uniform). At the 6th form it was the same - zero tolerance of bullying, no uniform. The way to deal with bullying is to deal with bullying, not to faff about with super strict uniform. A child who is inclined to bully will do so no matter what.

Personally, I liked having a uniform, I didn't sorry about not having fashionable clothes or wearing things more than one day in a row or it being obvious I didn't have a large wardrobe with brands like some kids. I didn't have to think about putting together an outfit that matched, I just put on a uniform done.

Why would you have an extra chore? You wouldn’t have to go out to buy extra clothes on at least 2 specific occasions in your child’s life.when, presumably, they already have enough clothes to keep them going. Then you wouldn’t have to ensure that these extra clothes were washed and dried Monday to Friday knowing that none of their other clothes will do.

Interesting perspective. I buy my child less "normal" clothes because the majority of the time they wear school uniform. They only wear non-uniform at the weekend or for a couple weeks during a holiday or half-term (and even then a lot of it is spent in pyjamas as they don't go out and about every single day or then every single day of a weekend), so why would I have loads of clothes to last them? They have quite a minimal wardrobe tbh.

Maybe the kids in the Netherlands are just brought up to be nicer. They are the happiest children aren't they - mainly because they enjoy a lot of responsibility and independence.

But we prefer our SUVs to cycle paths.

Going off at a bit of a tangent there I know :)

As I said, I think there is a reduction in bullying due to no labels etc but you still know who comes from wealthy backgrounds and who doesn't, so it's not a panacea.

A friend is a teacher in Germany and she said sometimes she has to talk to the kids about their attire but generally it's jeans and t-shirts and no dramas.

Agreed. I was always a bit lastminute.com as a child so having a uniform meant that I could be out of the house within 15 minutes of getting out of bed if needs be because I knew exactly what I was wearing and it took seconds to put on. I was so last minute that I even had to put my tights on whilst on the school bus on a couple of occasions!
Thankfully my daughters are more organised, but I think they still like the routine of what they're wearing, and the fact that they can keep their 'nice' clothes for weekends.
@pointythings if you have a non-uniform school, do you find that pupils end up wearing the same thing every day anyway, just different from each other?
What happens on school trips where uniform can be an easy way of keeping track of pupils and as a bit of a safeguarding measure?

This. My kids like it because they don't have to compete with their friends for what's being worn. And yes I acknowledge that if non-uniform were the norm rather than a novelty then this competition would probably be reduced, but even so I think there is something to be said for a standardised boring uniform of black/navy/white or whatever.
I I do tend to think it's the parents rather than the pupils who make a fuss about it; whether it's because they're the ones paying for it I don't know. But if my daughters didn't like wearing it, why would they choose to keep it on after school instead of changing into other clothes?

@Givenupgivingashit my kids went through the UK school system, so uniform all the way until (thankfully) 6th form - ours is totally non uniform. And at 6th form, they just tended to wear what they felt happy in - which for my DC was jeans and T-shirts/flannel shirts, for others was vintage style clothing of all kinds, including Goth. It really didn't matter at all.

Where I went to school (Netherlands), school trips were just handled. Nobody ever got lost. Meeting points were agreed and times to meet up if a group wasn't with a teacher. We all knew not to go off with strangers. It was fine, everyone just took responsibility. In terms of what we wore, it was much the same as the culture at my DCs' 6th form. And yes, there were fashion tribes - but no more so than there were music tribes, sports tribes etc.because that is just what teenagers do. In terms of bullying, if it happened, you reported it and it got dealt with in a very wham, bam, thank you ma'm fashion (no, not corporal punishment, that was abolished in 1835 in Dutch schools, but the sanctions were tough).

@Givenupgivingashit at my DD's school the children pretty much all wear joggers/leggings and hoodies/jumpers until perhaps the last year (the 11/12/13 year olds) when they start wearing jeans perhaps but joggers on PE days (they don't get changed for PE so they have to wear PE suitable clothes on PE days or it'll show on their PE grade). My 12 year old wears the same trousers and hoody all week and just changes underwear, socks and t-shirt so getting dressed is dead simple for her. Her very fashion conscious friend changes her clothes a bit more frequently but not much more, and still just wears comfy clothes.

They don't do school trips much but when they do the children are expected to be a bit responsible for themselves, stick together etc. and of course have phones so if they get lost they can call their teacher/friends (I remember worrying all day when DD went on a school trip to an amusement park but forgot her phone!). Very young children, like 5 and 6 year olds, wear hi-viz vests on class trips which makes them stand out (for the teacher to see and for car drivers to see)

Surely you need enough non-uniform clothes to last them the 6 weeks summer holidays, then 2+ weeks at Christmas and Easter. Unless you’re forever washing or they double up and wear their uniform for some of those holiday days, you need enough clothes to cover. And for young children those will be outgrown before they’re outworn. It’s quite unusual for young children to stay in the house all day in the holidays unless they’re actually ill!

How did your children feel about wearing uniform?

They hated it but wore it properly because they were sensible and realised they didn't have a choice (no non-uniform schools our way) and they had non uniform 6th form to look forward to. There was a change of leadership just as my oldest was about to go into 6th form and there was a consultation among parents about changes they would like to see. And yes, there was a question about introducing a 'business dress' type uniform. Which was roundly defeated by a 90/10 majority of parents. Personally if the change had come in, I would have got my DC into 6th form where I work (Cambridge) because their 6th form colleges are both non uniform. They'd have got the grades, that would not have been a problem.

What I will never understand is the way uniform is ascribed all these magical properties. It improves behaviour, it improves results, it prevents bullying, it prepares young people for the world of work. You'd think it was impossible to raise functioning young adults without it. And there isn't a scrap of actual evidence that any of it is true - the only study suggesting that was commissioned by a school uniform retailer... I don't get it.

It’s quite unusual for young children to stay in the house all day in the holidays unless they’re actually ill!

So children go out every single day in the holidays? News to me, mine is quite happy to stay in, as I was as a child. There's loads to do indoors. Never been a family who need to be busy with activities every day.

And mine have enough clothes to last a week, but if they needed to wear them 7 days non-stop, I'd have to wash the lot every week, whereas in an average holiday week they might go out for 4 days and spend 3 at home, where they don't need to be dressed. During a school week, they might only go out in their own clothes 1 day (sat or sun). They don't change into normal clothes when home, they stay in their school clothes or change to sleepwear. Christmas holidays in particular, the majority of time is spent indoors, summer more outside but still they aren't out 7 days a week.