To think that secondary school uniform rules are ridiculous?

[TrulyFlumptious]

Just for transparency, my DC are nursery and primary school age, so I currently have no skin in this game.

When I was in school (I’m in my late 30s, for reference) primary and secondary uniforms were very similar. Shirt and tie, branded cardi/jumper, plain black shoes and black or grey skirt/trousers. This was the standard from reception up to year 11.

Over the years, primary uniforms have gotten a bit more casual. Branded polo tops in place of shirts and ties seem to be the standard now. I have 3 primary schools near me and I can’t remember the last time I saw a small child in a shirt and tie.

However secondaries, even the local community schools, now seem to be channelling private school style uniforms as standard. My old school now insists on blazers, school issue tights, and uniform skirts in a school-particular check pattern. This seems to be standard process across most senior schools now. You also barely go a week without seeing a story about a child getting into trouble for not wearing the uniform tights, being put in a weeks isolation for forgetting their jumper, or children being forced to keep their blazers on in heatwaves whilst their teachers are in short sleeves or summer dresses.

AIBU to think this is completely ridiculous and getting out of hand? The argument of “this is preparing them for work” is totally arbitrary now - the world has changed, especially since covid, and barely anyone wears a shirt, tie or blazer to work any more. Most office workers are in smart casual and can adapt their dress for their own comfort levels, and even in the jobs that do require uniform it usually consists of branded polos/tees, or a tunic. What exactly are these students being “prepared” for? Yes, there should be some uniform rules in place to ensure students are not inappropriately dressed, but as far as I can see, these ridiculously over-complicated uniforms are out of touch, out of date, and do not fit in with modern society. I feel they are used simply as a means of control.

And don’t even get me started on the cost.

What do you think?

YANBU – senior school uniforms are ridiculously over-complicated, out of touch, and need to go back to basics
YABU – school uniforms are as strict and complicated as they should be.

Totally agree OP. It’s quite ridiculous. With a few exceptions the vast majority of professionals don’t wear a suit and tie to work. They should all just make their PE kit their normal uniform. I’d love to see some headteachers or secondary governors take a stand on this. I’d be so impressed with them stepping out of whatever weird group think seems to be going on.

Loads… standard weekend wear here.

They should all just make their PE kit their normal uniform
That would look shit though.

lots of parents don’t want non or relaxed uniform

the HT at DDs primary school used covid to relax the uniform. It’s now black trousers or skirt - can be any kind as long as it isn’t see through or so short or low at the back that your underwear can be seen - a plain white or black shirt, T-shirt or polo shirt, and a plain black or red jumper, cardigan or hoodie. School ties, logo-ed polo shirts and jumpers are still available for those that want them.

The staff all say the mood and behaviour in the school has improved massively because staff and pupils aren’t on a collision course over uniform first thing. Their recent Ofsted was positively glowing!

Yet a section of parents are unhappy because they don’t think a hoody or joggers are suitable school attire and it doesn’t look as smart as one of the other local schools that had the girls in £55 kilts…

What did you have to wear, was it very formal?

Depends on your point of view as to what constitutes formal. But from what we used to call 1st year juniors (year 3 in new money) it was full uniform. Shirt, tie, skirt, cardigan or jumper and blazer.

When I started secondary the lower school (years 7-9) the girls had different coloured shirts and when they got into upper school blazers were no longer compulsory. When I was about 13 there was a school wide vote on uniform and we voted to change 5 rules:

1. Allowed to wear black tights instead of just green
2. White shirts for everyone instead of the yellow ones
3. Pleated skirts instead of pencil skirts
4. I forget!
5. Blazers to remain compulsory for all.

Everyone I spoke to voted to keep the blazer. So many handy pockets.

Never found it uncomfortable. Used to take my blazer off when I got home because it's a mostly outdoor layer but that was all.

Urgh, green tights! No wonder you voted to change those! Which year was this in?
But yes, that sounds pretty similar to what we had with the exception of the blazer. And pockets, skirts never have pockets. Some girls wore flared skirts which did have pockets but I and my sisters always wore pencil skirts which meant my mum was always sewing up the back splits cos we were always ripping them!
In terms of comfort, like you never had a problem. Did you always wear the uniform properly/tidily?

I started Secondary in 1990 so the vote would have been 92 or 93 I think.

Yes I always wore it properly. The occasional roll up of the skirt until caught out.

At the start of every lesson someone would ask permission to take off blazers and it was always given. Just had to have them back on between classes. Which everyone wanted to anyway, because pockets.

On very hot days a chalkboard would appear outside the head's officer with "WARM WEATHER DRESS" written on it which meant blazers could be taken off without asking.

I must admit I do quite like the look of blazers and they are practical for carrying stuff, but they're a faff to wash. Was it a Catholic school you went to cos they're usually the ones with blazers in my experience, like my DD's school.
We were allowed to remove jumpers when it was warm, but that meant we had to tuck shirts in.
Did you stay looking smart in the evenings too?

Not a Catholic school, an ordinary state comprehensive. It didn't have a 6th form so I did transfer to the Catholic one then which is where there was no uniform in 6th form and I wished there was.

Did I stay looking smart in the evenings? In as much as I didn't get changed then yes. Maybe I took my tie off? I don't remember doing so but I may have done.

I know some people say that they don't understand the idea of having a uniform removing the stress of having to think what to wear every day but it genuinely did for me and still does for work tbh. So I was quietly pleased that my sixth form had one too.
Did your friends all do the same as you in not changing in the evening?

@Givenupgivingashit so are British young people genuinely different? Because if you think that young people in countries where there is no school uniform spend their hours in agonies of indecision about what to wear, you're dreaming. They tend to just fling on what's clean in their wardrobe because non uniform is nothing special.

I've never claimed to speak for all British teens now or 30 years ago. I wanted to have a uniform because it was easier. So did a lot of my friends. Maybe we were common, maybe we were unusual. Who can tell?

I didn't spend hours in agonies of indecision. It's just one more chore that I would have happily done without.

It's not just UK schools which have uniforms though is it?
And tbh as a school pupil I actually liked the uniform

I'm in NZ and state primary schools here generally have uniforms designed for play. Secondary schools have summer and winter uniforms, and I don't often see kids wearing a blazer - even back in my day they were optional, due to the cost of them I imagine. I don't see many kids wearing ties either, certainly not in summer.

YANBU my DD is in yr9, has the longest skirt available and it's like a mini skirt due to her ridiculously long legs. Trousers are useless as rapidly becoming capri length!

@Givenupgivingashit it isn't just the UK, it's a lot of the Anglophone countries, former colonies and of course countries like China, where conformity and compliance are so treasured. But there are swathes of countries out there that manage perfectly well without uniform. They get good educational outcomes (often better than the UK) and there is no breakdown of law and order in schools.

Meanwhile here in the UK, schools get away with financial selection by stealth through expensive single supplier uniforms and parents attach magical qualities to what is basically clothes. It's madness.

I liked having a school uniform also, and for much of my working life I've worn a uniform. That meant I could keep my work and private life totally separate. We once had a month with mufti Fridays - I was so pleased when it ended and I could go back to knowing exactly what to wear to work each day! In my most recent job there wasn't a uniform - so I used the skirt from my previous workplace and purchased some cheap tops. I just hate wearing the clothes I really like to work for some reason.

parents attach magical qualities to what is basically clothes. It's madness
Some of us just prefer it because it's easier. That's all. No magical properties. As a pupil I liked the convenience of it and it was no less comfortable than any other clothes. As a parent I prefer it as avoids arguments in the morning and I think it looks nice. I wouldn't be angry if our school lost uniform, I would be annoyed. Nothing as hyperbolic as your statements.

I don't agree with the notion of having expensive, logoed, single supplier uniforms at all; it's not what I had to wear and it's not what my DD's have to wear either. The blazers which they wear have a separate sew on badge for the breast pocket.
What's the problem with having 'workwear for school' in the same way that many workplaces have a uniform of some sort?

Pupils have to wear something for school. If not uniform, then it would obviously be non uniform items, so either t-shirt/jeans, or some sort of sports wear. Invariably these items will cost more than the items of a bog standard school uniform, so surely it makes sense to have one set of clothes for school, and another set for home?
I don't know whether school students appreciate the sense of 'identity' which a uniform is supposed to confer, but surely it must help in terms of behaviour to and from school if they can be easily identified?

What's the problem with having 'workwear for school' in the same way that many workplaces have a uniform of some sort?

The problem is that 1) school is compulsory, whereas with work one chooses to apply for a particular job and 2) school uniform is not a necessity; schools function perfectly well without it all over the world.

In addition, many workplaces are becoming more and more casual and less and less restrictive in their dress codes - this is even happening in areas like law and finance. The trend is away from uniform, not towards it, even in the UK.

I'd turn the question on its head: what's the problem with letting young people wear what they want, as long as it is weather appropriate and clean? I grew up in a non uniform country and I function perfectly well in the workplace. My school dealt with bullies effectively and nobody was ever lost on a school trip through not wearing a uniform. Uniform isn't a necessity, it's a religion.

I'd turn the question on its head: what's the problem with letting young people wear what they want, as long as it is weather appropriate and clean? I grew up in a non uniform country and I function perfectly well in the workplace. My school dealt with bullies effectively and nobody was ever lost on a school trip through not wearing a uniform. Uniform isn't a necessity, it's a religion.
It's a preference. I've said that. I don't think uniform is essential for schools, I don't think it's related to future workwear. It's just easier and looks nice. I would be put off sending my DC to a school without uniform because it just doesn't look as nice and it creates an extra chore. Not a huge one but a chore nonetheless.

I don't think many parents have the religious adherence to it you are imagining. It's just more convenient.

Invariably these items will cost more than the items of a bog standard school uniform

Er, no. School uniform is expensive. There are schools which deliberately make it so - £80 - £100 for a blazer isn't unusual even in a bog standard comp. There are families who struggle to afford uniform.

My kids were delighted when they hit 6th form and could wear the normal clothes which they already had in their wardrobe. They were savvy shoppers and not fashion victims; their allowance covered their needs. I spent far, far less on school clothes for their last 2 years at school per year than for their first 5 in secondary.

How would you cope if you lived in the Netherlands or Germany?