To think that secondary school uniform rules are ridiculous?

[TrulyFlumptious]

Just for transparency, my DC are nursery and primary school age, so I currently have no skin in this game.

When I was in school (I’m in my late 30s, for reference) primary and secondary uniforms were very similar. Shirt and tie, branded cardi/jumper, plain black shoes and black or grey skirt/trousers. This was the standard from reception up to year 11.

Over the years, primary uniforms have gotten a bit more casual. Branded polo tops in place of shirts and ties seem to be the standard now. I have 3 primary schools near me and I can’t remember the last time I saw a small child in a shirt and tie.

However secondaries, even the local community schools, now seem to be channelling private school style uniforms as standard. My old school now insists on blazers, school issue tights, and uniform skirts in a school-particular check pattern. This seems to be standard process across most senior schools now. You also barely go a week without seeing a story about a child getting into trouble for not wearing the uniform tights, being put in a weeks isolation for forgetting their jumper, or children being forced to keep their blazers on in heatwaves whilst their teachers are in short sleeves or summer dresses.

AIBU to think this is completely ridiculous and getting out of hand? The argument of “this is preparing them for work” is totally arbitrary now - the world has changed, especially since covid, and barely anyone wears a shirt, tie or blazer to work any more. Most office workers are in smart casual and can adapt their dress for their own comfort levels, and even in the jobs that do require uniform it usually consists of branded polos/tees, or a tunic. What exactly are these students being “prepared” for? Yes, there should be some uniform rules in place to ensure students are not inappropriately dressed, but as far as I can see, these ridiculously over-complicated uniforms are out of touch, out of date, and do not fit in with modern society. I feel they are used simply as a means of control.

And don’t even get me started on the cost.

What do you think?

YANBU – senior school uniforms are ridiculously over-complicated, out of touch, and need to go back to basics
YABU – school uniforms are as strict and complicated as they should be.

DS’s uniform has changed twice in five years. Luckily the HT has said children already in the school can wear uniform until they’ve outgrown it, but there are still people with children already there whose younger children will no longer benefit from hand-me-downs

Yes and this should actually be a legal requirement - it is astonishing that some heads will not permit this. Apparently teachers don't earn that much money - yet headteachers seem to think everyone has money to burn on expensive uniforms. Big disconnect there.

When I started secondary the uniform had changed two years before me (so for what would be the current Y9s when I was Y7) but some girls in what was Y10 and 11 were still wearing the old uniform. They weren't fussy about what you wore for PE either - it was a white shirt and navy shorts but I had some shorts with white lines on them and they didn't care - an academy would send you home for that now.

You know that if you eg work as a guard on a train, you'll have to wear a uniform

The workplace would be obliged to provide you with uniform, and other required gear. Nobody would suggest that maybe you or your family should go without (insert something nice) so you could look "smart" at work.

I can't believe the number of schools that insist on girls wearing skirts. No employer would ever insist upon this (cleaIr sex discrimination if they did).

It's also sex discrimination and unlawful in schools. Time to take a stand.

It's also sex discrimination and unlawful in schools. Time to take a stand.

This!

DT’s went to a non uniform school but managed without any difficulties in adapting to appropriate workwear when they got their graduate jobs.

Most of the Western world doesn’t have school uniforms but manage to educate their children successfully. The UK is behind the times.

I have massive issues with current school uniforms:

• they’re made of plastic material so aren’t recyclable and end up in landfill
• they’re difficult to keep looking smart (pleated skirts case in point)
• they’re not inclusive and cause sensory issues for some students (my DD included)
• girls uniforms are massively sexualised (just Google ‘school girl’ and see what comes up) and many girls experience sexual harassment whilst wearing their uniform

For these reasons and more, there needs to be an overhaul of uniform. My preference would be a gender neutral tracksuit.

@Parker231 it's amazing how many posters think British kids are so much worse than German, Danish, Dutch etc. kids that they need 12 years just to learn about appropriate workwear, whereas kids in other nations manage that just fine. Are UK kids really that thick? I think not.

DD’s school, to the horror of some parents, have adopted their covid era uniform.

Any black trousers or skirt. Only rule is no underwear on show either from the top or bottom (so no belt length skirts or baggy waisted jeans) when standing or sitting.

plain black, white or red t-shirt, polo shirt or shirt. (school tie is still available if people want one)

Plain black, red or white jumper, cardigan or hoodie.

Black shoes or trainers with no large logos.

Jackets are whatever you want, but the head encourages bright colours for safety when walking.

Staff (and results back them) say the school is much better place for everyone now that the day isn’t starting with “you’re not allowed to wear that” conflict.

I despise school uniforms for all the reasons people have already mentioned. I'd like to add that most secondary schools do not have anywhere for pupils to store outdoor clothes, so either they have to freeze in winter and get wet when it rains, ( most of the pupils our the secondaries near me, who just wear their blazer with no top coat) or they have to carry it around with them all day, along with PE kit, books for every subject that day, and lunch.
I don't like how the blazers are usually a horrible sweaty polyester, as are the school trousers, and I don't understand why black trainers are not OK to wear all day, which would obviate the need to carry round a second pair of trainers.
I think it is inhumane to expect pupils to keep blazers on in all weathers, and I don't see why pupils shouldn't wear shorts.
I have worked in many schools, and the wearing or not of uniform makes no difference to behaviour, it's just an unnecessary form of control. It doesn't teach them anything other than life is a bitch.
Anyone working in even a formal office gets to choose whether to wear a jacket or take it off, gets to select comfortable shoes and cotton clothes, and can leave their outdoor clothes somewhere safe and not have to drag them around all day.

Let's take a stand against school uniform costs. Please sign my petition to reduce the cost of school uniforms.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/641227

My preference would be a gender neutral tracksuit

LOL. Just how many teens do you know that would be happy wearing a tracksuit every day at school?

It's an MN thing though isn't it? You need years of training to do things rather than learn them when you need them.

See threads about family outings to supermarkets - unless you've gone shopping with your extended family every day you'll never know how to shop and pay for something.

So you need "training" in wearing a school uniform to be able to cope with a uniform if you have a job where one is required.

It's a nonsense.

I also think it's absurd to require girls to wear skirts and indeed work uniforms are usually much more practical and women wear trousers (although in some more male dominated jobs, the uniforms do not always fit women very well, but that is another issue).

Uniform was optional at the junior school I attended in the 1960's, but my grammar school from 1966-73 had very strict unform rules. When compulsory uniform was abolished in 1970 nobody bothered to wear uniform and most pf us girls wore jeans of one style or another - it was more practical and, let's face it, more fashionable than a school uniform designed before the second world war !

When my daughter was at secondary school in the noughties girls had the option of wearing trousers, which were thought unthinkable in the 1960's era, but they had to be of a regulation style bought from an approved retailer - which I didn't think at all unreasonable. But what my daughter complained bitterly about was that blazers were compulsory at all times even during a heatwave - totally unreasobable, IMHO!

Modern secondary school girls seem to be a right scruffy bunch of oiks - no other description I can use. Hair not tied back off their faces, some wearing heavy full face makeup , leggings instead of proper unifom trousers - and these leggings so skin-tight they look almost like they've been sprayed on so not at all decent for adolescent teenage girls. Some girls wear skirts so short they bearly reach beyond the bottom hem of their school blazer and are of a length more suitable for playing tennis rather than appearing in the street in public.

A lot of school uniform items seem to come with the school badge or school logo embroudered on them, which only adds to the expense and this places an unnecessary burden on parents who are less well-off. It would be much better if schools simply inisited on plain coloured skirts/trousers/jumpers/jackets WITHOUT a school logo as these could surely be produced and sold at a more affordable price. School ties for junior school chldren are ridiculously impractical and a plain polo top is much better.

@cobden28 why shouldn't girls (or boys with long hair) wear it loose if they aren't doing DT or lab work? Why shouldn't girls (or boys, if they wish) wear makeup? Check your misogyny, and your pathetic prejudices.

@cobden28 one of the problems with skirts if they are a specific style dictated by the school is that a skirt that fits on the waist might be quite short. I know some girls have this issue at my daughter’s school. If they’d just stipulate a black skirt then maybe they might be able to get skirts that fit!

Out of interest, is it the pupils who object to uniform or is it more parents who have issue with it? Obviously children don't have any opportunity to comment on here but just wonder whether their views would mirror those of their parents?

We both had issues with it. Too complicated to go into detail here, and my kids did wear the uniform properly, but they and I were both relieved when those days came to an end .

I had started out being very pro school uniform, but the idiotic policies and schools enforcing uniform to ridiculous levels (like blazers to be worn on very hot days to look smart) turned me against it.

My DD thinks the idea of school uniforms is ridiculous and is beyond glad we live somewhere where schools don't have uniforms. Perhaps she'd think differently if she was used to wearing uniforms but as an outside perspective she does not like the idea.

My two always envied me growing up in a country without school uniforms and were overjoyed to go to 6th form where there was no uniform at all. It's the parents and their stupid beliefs that uniform will magically make the teaching, the results, the behaviour and the bullying all great. Uniform is a religiouis cult in the UK.

I hated it. I missed uniform when I got into sixth form. Would have much preferred to keep it. I wasn't the only one either.

@DappledThings how did you cope in actual adult life? Did you end up in a job where you have to wear a uniform? I mean, I heard the 'uniform means I don't have to decide what to wear every day' argument from students at our local secondary and wasn't impressed. Students all over Europe manage that decision making process perfectly well every day, so why can't British students?

I manage but find it mostly tedious! Not having to faff with deciding clothes for another 2 years would have been nice.

The two of us who were most keen on getting uniform back were rather at opposite ends of the scale fashion wise which I always thought was interesting. There was me, scruffy in market tie-dye (it was the 90s!) and never having got the hang of/interest in make-up and there was Cara. Who was the most well groomed of us all; always coordinated, hair and make-up flawless, went to fashion shows and knew what looked good. Both of us preferred uniform.

What I don't get is why Nike, Adidas etc haven't teamed up with schools to make "cool" but functional school uniform.

They already do personalised shoes on the website so surely they can embroider logos, and realistically it's not going to a price parity between them and trutex, David Luke etc.

As it happens I have ended up in uniformed roles but it wasn't the fact that they entailed wearing a uniform which encouraged me to take the jobs!
When I and my sisters were at school there wasn't an option; everyone wore the uniform, and for us it was pretty much all we wore during the week in that we put it on in the morning and it was worn until we went to bed at night, primary and secondary school. I don't think we were ever given the option of changing into something else after school; if something got dirty then we just put clean on the next day. I don't recall our uniforms being anything sophisticated, just a skirt, shirt, tie and jumper (we didn't have to wear blazers). There wasn't a huge fuss made about styles of skirts, some girls wore straight, others flared. I think our uniform rules were pretty relaxed really, as long as you were wearing the correct uniform then most teachers turned a blind eye to have the tie loosened as long as it was still above the V of the jumper, and we only got told off for having shirts untucked if it was without a jumper and it was in the corridors between lessons. So I think we all quite liked wearing it because it was easy to wear and saved our 'nice' clothes for weekends.
I'm guessing that this has informed my attitude to school uniform now; my DD's have to wear formal uniform of shirt/tie/jumper/skirt with blazer for high school. If they've complained about wearing it then I've told them to just view it as 'workwear' as many people have to do in employment. I make sure that they've always got clean uniform to wear, and from the youngest still at primary through to the eldest in Y10, I leave it up to them how it's worn given they know what they school guidelines are and whether they wear it/change after school. As a consequence, they all leave the house looking pretty smart (all have top buttons done up except the youngest who has hers slightly loose), and I think with shirts untucked under their jumpers. But they are allowed to relax their uniforms at school if it's warm or they're doing something active in lessons (taking blazers off/loosening ties, etc) So that probably makes a difference to their willingness to wear it.
And tbh once home, about 80% of the time they stay in it, albeit with varying degrees of modification. Youngest will usually keep everything on as it is when she leaves the school gate, by which time tie is pretty loose/shirt untucked, etc, and either with paint/glue/mud somewhere on it. So she's happy playing inside or out in that. The eldest 3 will usually take off their blazers, top half often stays on and skirt might be swapped for jeans depending on house temperature. Ties usually kept on either done up or loosened. Eldest currently with me in the living room still in full uniform minus blazer and a very loosened tie, and seems quite content.
So I think a lot of it is down to parental attitude as well; if they see the parents being relaxed or positive about school uniform, then surely that will rub off on the children too?

@Givenupgivingashit I agree with all that. I never changed out of mine after school. Never saw the point, never found it uncomfortable. It was just hassle-free clothing.

My own DC are still at primary but have never made any request to change either.