To think that secondary school uniform rules are ridiculous?

[TrulyFlumptious]

Just for transparency, my DC are nursery and primary school age, so I currently have no skin in this game.

When I was in school (I’m in my late 30s, for reference) primary and secondary uniforms were very similar. Shirt and tie, branded cardi/jumper, plain black shoes and black or grey skirt/trousers. This was the standard from reception up to year 11.

Over the years, primary uniforms have gotten a bit more casual. Branded polo tops in place of shirts and ties seem to be the standard now. I have 3 primary schools near me and I can’t remember the last time I saw a small child in a shirt and tie.

However secondaries, even the local community schools, now seem to be channelling private school style uniforms as standard. My old school now insists on blazers, school issue tights, and uniform skirts in a school-particular check pattern. This seems to be standard process across most senior schools now. You also barely go a week without seeing a story about a child getting into trouble for not wearing the uniform tights, being put in a weeks isolation for forgetting their jumper, or children being forced to keep their blazers on in heatwaves whilst their teachers are in short sleeves or summer dresses.

AIBU to think this is completely ridiculous and getting out of hand? The argument of “this is preparing them for work” is totally arbitrary now - the world has changed, especially since covid, and barely anyone wears a shirt, tie or blazer to work any more. Most office workers are in smart casual and can adapt their dress for their own comfort levels, and even in the jobs that do require uniform it usually consists of branded polos/tees, or a tunic. What exactly are these students being “prepared” for? Yes, there should be some uniform rules in place to ensure students are not inappropriately dressed, but as far as I can see, these ridiculously over-complicated uniforms are out of touch, out of date, and do not fit in with modern society. I feel they are used simply as a means of control.

And don’t even get me started on the cost.

What do you think?

YANBU – senior school uniforms are ridiculously over-complicated, out of touch, and need to go back to basics
YABU – school uniforms are as strict and complicated as they should be.

Entirely agree. I particularly dislike seeing teenage girls in uniform skirts during winter - I found them so cold and uncomfortable.

You should see the uniform at the secondary school near me. You've never seen such a bunch of scruffy herberts.

I think the blazers look smart and it’s not exactly difficult to adhere to uniform policies. Girls wear black trousers in winter ( surely no school can suggest a skirt is compulsory uniform for females ?!) Blazers not required during heatwaves.

Ours have plain shirt, tie, grey or black trousers, and a blazer. The blazers aren’t particularly expensive and they go in the washing machine, and last a lot better than the school jumpers. Some schools may have got fancy and complicated but around near us it just seems to be blazer and tie, and all the rest is just normal. And the blazers are sensible washable ones, not thick wool.

Agree. It seems to be an English thing more than a Scottish thing (I'm Scottish).

Our high school makes everyone buy a blazer then the kids literally never wear it. They wear leggings or short jersey skirts and converse. It's fine.

It blows my mind when I read about kids being given detention for the wrong haircut or cheap trainers when it's all the parents can afford, for example. Absolute power play bullshit.

I would happily either abolish uniform (other countries seem to manage perfectly well without it) or have a simpler, cheaper and more comfortable uniform, maybe a bit like what Brownies and Guides have. Or something similar to PE kits.

All the primary schools near me still have shirts and ties, so you get four-year-olds wearing a tie at a time when many workplaces no longer require them.

Schools can choose inexpensive or expensive styles.
They have uniform for cohesiveness and recognising who are their pupils on and off premises.

Blazers have loads of pockets and are nicely practical.
Uniform skirts are that way due to teens playing fast and loose with rules.
Sensible schools allow removal of blazers and bin them entirely in heatwaves.

I think the blazers look smart and it’s not exactly difficult to adhere to uniform policies.

Just because they look smart, does that mean they should be a standard part of uniform every day for 5 years when no other section of society is expected to wear them?

If my boss tried to tell me I had to wear a blazer to work every day because it “looks smart”, I’d be telling them to get stuffed.

Or something similar to PE kits.

Agree. One good thing that has stuck around post-covid is lots of schools let students wear their PE kits all day when they have a lesson that day. They look so much comfier, and they look smart and are branded too. What’s the issue with them wearing something like this every day?

It's because big school uniform companies like Monkhouse push the school into specifying large numbers of specific items and agree exclusive right of supply.

In return the school gets a kickback of say 50p for a jumper or £1 for a blazer.

Parents are being ripped off by these deals and schools are so desperate for cash they feel forced into it.

It's market forces and greed driving the rules, not a philosophy.

Blazers were the norm for us 35 years ago, we also weren't allowed tights, we had to wear white fold over ankle socks, trousers not allowed so made for cold winters walking 2.5 miles to school each way!

@TrulyFlumptious

Plenty of employers insist on suits, men have always worn them and in many sectors women wear jackets and dresses (or skirts and blouse). Things have relaxed in some work places but not all

So that was clearly a shit idea 35 years ago.
I had to wear uniform longer ago than that - it was also pointless, shit, unfit for purpose and a stupid idea then.

Someone told me there’s some kind of psychology in that uniform gives kids something to rebel against without it being a big deal and better than them rebelling against something with more consequences.
I do actually also think it prepares them for adult working life; yes most offices are less formal now but there’s lots of jobs where uniform is necessary and rules that you have to accept you follow

I think it comes from more than supplier pressure or any payment to the school if that happens.

Schools are limited in the ways that they can instil reasonable standards of behaviour, and some parents undermine this tacitly or actively. The one thing that they can enforce easily is uniform, so it becomes more of an issue than it would otherwise be.

I agree. School uniforms no longer reflect how people dress in the workplace or anywhere else. They haven't really changed much in 50 years.

Uniform has become a way to weed out all the kids they don't want to have ti deal with. Anyone who's poor or has a disability/sensory issue that means they won't be able to afford or cope with the uniform just won't bother applying.

If it was about levelling the playing field schools would accept supermarket stuff right down to the blazers.

Instead they make damn sure you can't pass it down or sell it on so easily by ensuring that different houses have different colours . Names need to be sewn/printed onto pe kits etc

Even when schools appear to be " reasonable " by allowing stuff to be purchased from sources that aren't the uniform shop? The restrictions make it difficult. Ever tried to find base layers without logos or piping for example?

Of course many parents love it because God forbid you dont have a logo or a uniform and someone accidentally assumes your grammar school child goes to shithole academy down the road. If there wasn't this degree of snobbery we'd probably have more people pushing back a bit.

Thank flip such employers are becoming mercifully rare - I can only think of one in my industry that requires men to wear a suit and a piece of Edwardian neck rag for no valid reason.

I can only go off my experience,my son finished secondary school last Friday the uniform was a generic pair of black trousers ,and blue shirt for boys, s school.tie and blazer ,school jumper was optional
for girls it was a generic grey, skirt,and blue shirt or black trousers ,school.tie,and blazer again jumper was optional
Ime,the schools with stricter uniform policies have been academies ( my sons school wasn't an academy) and reverse the schoolers performing the more focus there seemed to be on strict uniform policies.

Which employers still insist on this? I know people who work in law and corporate banking, they are not dressing in the same way they did even 5 years ago. No blazers or ties - smart shirts/blouses and trousers/skirts and dresses are the norm.

Maybe a proper suit and tie if you were appearing in court, but that’s a special circumstance.

Agree.

Agree, my dd is year 1 and has to wear a tie. My friend's dd has to wear a tie, blazer and beret in reception - both are state schools. I know very few men who actually have to wear suits anymore anyway and I didn't have a uniform at the sixth form I attended but somehow managed to adapt my clothing when I entered the workplace. Seems ridiculous.

Most of the country doesn't have Grammar schools though ,so.isn't really applicable across most the UK

I was wearing a tie in primary school.,I started in 1978
Tie,s for girls at my secondary school were optional.

Grammar school or not every town has a school no one wants. Mine has a few you'd avoid if you could. And many a parent would be miffed if you assumed their kids went to them