To think that secondary school uniform rules are ridiculous?

[TrulyFlumptious]

Just for transparency, my DC are nursery and primary school age, so I currently have no skin in this game.

When I was in school (I’m in my late 30s, for reference) primary and secondary uniforms were very similar. Shirt and tie, branded cardi/jumper, plain black shoes and black or grey skirt/trousers. This was the standard from reception up to year 11.

Over the years, primary uniforms have gotten a bit more casual. Branded polo tops in place of shirts and ties seem to be the standard now. I have 3 primary schools near me and I can’t remember the last time I saw a small child in a shirt and tie.

However secondaries, even the local community schools, now seem to be channelling private school style uniforms as standard. My old school now insists on blazers, school issue tights, and uniform skirts in a school-particular check pattern. This seems to be standard process across most senior schools now. You also barely go a week without seeing a story about a child getting into trouble for not wearing the uniform tights, being put in a weeks isolation for forgetting their jumper, or children being forced to keep their blazers on in heatwaves whilst their teachers are in short sleeves or summer dresses.

AIBU to think this is completely ridiculous and getting out of hand? The argument of “this is preparing them for work” is totally arbitrary now - the world has changed, especially since covid, and barely anyone wears a shirt, tie or blazer to work any more. Most office workers are in smart casual and can adapt their dress for their own comfort levels, and even in the jobs that do require uniform it usually consists of branded polos/tees, or a tunic. What exactly are these students being “prepared” for? Yes, there should be some uniform rules in place to ensure students are not inappropriately dressed, but as far as I can see, these ridiculously over-complicated uniforms are out of touch, out of date, and do not fit in with modern society. I feel they are used simply as a means of control.

And don’t even get me started on the cost.

What do you think?

YANBU – senior school uniforms are ridiculously over-complicated, out of touch, and need to go back to basics
YABU – school uniforms are as strict and complicated as they should be.

Like I said I would be in the minority but I stand by what I say!

As someone who grew up in care, not just me but many others in the care system dreaded non uniform day, quite happily went any other time (most of the time when we felt like it) but non school uniform days were horrendous for kids like us who got our clothes from a clothing allowance allocated every 6 months or so by the local authority.

Not just us but I have seen the bullying towards other kids whose parents just could not afford the nicest gear/shopped in charity shops etc.

For anyone thinking those kids dont stand out you are very deluded and live a privileged life.

Yes bullying happens for all sorts of reasons and all of them are wrong but why would anyone want to put another child in that situation just because their child has to wear a blazer and tie?

The collar dug into my neck

Then it was the wrong size. Were you overweight?

Our uniform supplier doesn't seem that expensive and the jumpers are good quality and last ages, there's a roaring pta trade in second hand ones.

Our school buys shoes and supports parents on a low income. We have plenty of students who we have purchased proper school shoes for and they mysteriously lose them and must wear their white Nike Air Force Ones every day. Also surely a haircut that isn't extreme e.g tram lines, bright blue, skin head etc isn't going to cost more than those options?

I agree that all the branded stuff is expensive but to be honest if we didn't have uniform we'd probably still have to impose rules like no flip flops or bikini's and students would still find away to break those rules.

No.

I still hate collars and I'm still not overweight.

Ironically, DC's private school relax their usually strict uniform code when it's very hot. Blazers can be left at home, ties removed and top buttons undone. When it was really hot last year they were allowed to wear PE kit to school as it was unbearable for the kids in school uniform.

Totally agree with this. Level playing field.

Not when you're 17 and it's been that way for 13 years of your life!

Absolutely. I work in an area with significant levels of deprivation in a big city. Our uniform totally works because it means the kids who can't afford designer labels don't stand out.

It's all generic - white shirt/ black trousers/ black shoes and school tie and blazer (£40 washable and swappable when it's outgrown). Here pupils who receive free school meals get a clothing grant for uniform, so cost is more than covered.

The thing that DOES really piss me off is the length/ tightness/ impracticality of skirts (you can see underwear ALL the time). It's a constant battle, so I can see why a specific one is brought in in sone schools.

I'd be all for a PE style uniform with hoodies, but the problem then becomes with branded shorts/ leggings/ joggers/ those bloody horrible Nike hot-pant type things they wear creeping in, not to mention the competitive trainers (which can be eye-watering- I had a pupil in £500 Balenciagas during a wear pink for cancer day!).

I hear you.

I threw my blazer at the deputy head during a heatwave while I was at grammar school.
She'd stood there in a floaty sleeveless dress telling me to put it on in 30 degree weather, absolutely not. ''If it's that important'' I said ''you wear it''
Also who decided that black trousers and white shirt was the be all and end all of smartness? That's still my work uniform now and I look like a 15 year old! VILE!

I absolutely hate school uniforms. I think they're completely OTT.
And the argument I often hear of it is a leveller is a load of BS. It doesn't level anything when secondary schools round here run trips that costs hundreds or even thousands. There's no levelling then!

Uniform shouldn't be a requirement to receive an education, let alone the strict requirements schools are able to get away with.

Education hasn't moved on to reflect the real world post-covid. Uniform is a ridiculous expense for parents - my employer requires me to wear a uniform for certain situations, and they provide everything. For days when I'm not in uniform, I'm in smart/casual clothes and not one jot is given by my colleagues about where the clothes are from. I think we're dressed in a mix of George at Asda and Cos. I don't remember the last time I saw a man in a tie beyond the security guard at the entrance.

The uniform shoe is also ridiculous, particularly for girls. Our school has a "no boots, no trainers" rule, which serves no purpose other than to keep Clarks in business with their shoddy brogues.

I'd be interested in seeing the change in behaviour standards if schools did away with uniform for 6 months.

school issue tights ?
DD went to an expensive indie & they didn't have any special rules about the tights.

Our state school secondary is becoming rapidly more relaxed about uniform by the day. Especially summer term.

Without uniform or at least some rules on attire, there would be a free for all surely. Short skirts, revealing tops, t-shirts with inappropriate messages, let alone all the angst over brands.

Blazers are great, especially the wool ones, no need for a winter coat. My DDs strict private schools were pretty good actually, the girls had short sleeved shirts worn over a pleated skirt, with cotton jumper and wool blazer. All very practical.

My brother works for one of the Big 4 and even they dont have to wear suits anymore, unless theyre meeting with clients. Which is fair enough, I guess.
Otherwise it is smart-ish office attired (so shirts, as opposed to polos) and pressed trousers.

I am 100% against uniforms. I dont understand them, and I think it is a rubbish deal for parents, particularly when the requirements are pretty strict, and not just some black trousers from ASDA.

Im not from the UK and never wore a uniform in my life. In kindergarten we had a bib that we wore over our own clothes. Thats the closest to a uniform I ever wore.

And not having a uniform was never a problem. I went to private school, but wasnt wealthy at all, and was in hand me downs for most of my 9 years there. Not once was I bullied for what I was wearing.

Sure, the posh kids would try to make us feel bad that we werent wearing BRANDS, but we turned it right around by making fun of the brands they were wearing. It was all in good fun, though, really. Just different tribes making fun of each other.

Agree with all of this.

My school used to send kids home to change if they turned up wearing the 'wrong' uniform. It was rare that anyone came back in - they just bunked off.

Understand the need to have a 'corporate image' by having everyone essentially wearing the same thing BUT there needs to be some logic at play.
If teachers are taking class and not wearing a jacket/blazer then I don't expect my child to be told they have to wear their blazer. If teachers are allowed coloured hair, ditto. Neither blazers (or absence of) or hair have any impact on the ability to learn.
Sitting in a stifling classroom not being able to remove your jacket affects concentration though.

One of our local schools has a 'cover all bases' uniform policy. There are a number of specific items that comprise the school uniform. E.g. shirt, skirt, trousers, jumper. Pupils may wear whichever they wish, as long as it is on the list of uniform items [so in effect, girls can wear trousers in winter, boys could wear skirts if they wished]. In the summer, they are allowed to wear their PE kit to school, whether or not they have PE, although if they do, it's suggested they bring something to change into afterwards.

Not just us but I have seen the bullying towards other kids whose parents just could not afford the nicest gear/shopped in charity shops etc. I remember the bullying of the poorer kids. That was in a primary school with full uniform, but we picked out the slightly cheaper jumper, the skirt that had to last longer. Anne’s mother was on benefits but we all “knew” that “her mother sat on the door step all day eating chocolates.”

LOL

Thats such a "tell youve never experienced no uniforms in schools without telling me youve never experienced no uniforms in schools" vibe.

Thats definitely not how it goes. Kids go to school dressed! And apart from the innapropriate messages, which my school had a rule about, there was no real dress code, either.

Because people understand that they are dressing for school, not for the beach! Even without a uniform, people can make that distinction! Just like if your office doesnt have a uniform, you dont go in your bikini and beach wrap and flip flops!

I think their uniforms could be much more confortable. Long poloshirts/ tunics with leggings is much better than a rigid shirt, with tie, with polyester skirt.
But I agree it gives them something to rebel against. It seems to work!

Haven't RTFT but I am all for uniform because of the cohesiveness, helping identify where kids are from when out of school and for levelling the playing field for those kids who don't have extensive, fashionable wardrobes. But... it should be more practical. A (coloured ideally, not white) polo shirt, plain trousers or skirt (happy with a length policy) that can be bought cheaply from supermarkets, and a plain or logoed jumper/cardigan is fine. Although I do agree blazers have an amazing array of useful pockets! They don't need to wear ties.

Ugh cannot think of anything worse than joggers and a hoodie.

Just abolish uniforms and let kids wear whatever they want.

What is the actual point in a tie?

Girls wear micro mini skirts and the boys have to sweat in trousers.

PE kit always gets lost and costs a bomb to replace.

My sons school has high expectations on uniform but no one cares if homework is done or not or you are behind etc.

@ASGIRC

Why not? Practical and comfortable

I actually don't care about uniform at all. What I do care about is violent, disrespectful behaviour day in and day out. The fact that kids and parents spend so much time moaning about basic clothing astonishes me. It also forms part of the reason behaviour is so poor in our schools. Kids feel that it is OK to debate every single instruction given. Their parents also do the same. Here is an idea. Support the rules of the school you choose for your child so they can get on with educating your child. If you disagree with the behaviour policy and detentions send them somewhere else. If you disagree with the uniform send them somewhere else.