To think that secondary school uniform rules are ridiculous?

[TrulyFlumptious]

Just for transparency, my DC are nursery and primary school age, so I currently have no skin in this game.

When I was in school (I’m in my late 30s, for reference) primary and secondary uniforms were very similar. Shirt and tie, branded cardi/jumper, plain black shoes and black or grey skirt/trousers. This was the standard from reception up to year 11.

Over the years, primary uniforms have gotten a bit more casual. Branded polo tops in place of shirts and ties seem to be the standard now. I have 3 primary schools near me and I can’t remember the last time I saw a small child in a shirt and tie.

However secondaries, even the local community schools, now seem to be channelling private school style uniforms as standard. My old school now insists on blazers, school issue tights, and uniform skirts in a school-particular check pattern. This seems to be standard process across most senior schools now. You also barely go a week without seeing a story about a child getting into trouble for not wearing the uniform tights, being put in a weeks isolation for forgetting their jumper, or children being forced to keep their blazers on in heatwaves whilst their teachers are in short sleeves or summer dresses.

AIBU to think this is completely ridiculous and getting out of hand? The argument of “this is preparing them for work” is totally arbitrary now - the world has changed, especially since covid, and barely anyone wears a shirt, tie or blazer to work any more. Most office workers are in smart casual and can adapt their dress for their own comfort levels, and even in the jobs that do require uniform it usually consists of branded polos/tees, or a tunic. What exactly are these students being “prepared” for? Yes, there should be some uniform rules in place to ensure students are not inappropriately dressed, but as far as I can see, these ridiculously over-complicated uniforms are out of touch, out of date, and do not fit in with modern society. I feel they are used simply as a means of control.

And don’t even get me started on the cost.

What do you think?

YANBU – senior school uniforms are ridiculously over-complicated, out of touch, and need to go back to basics
YABU – school uniforms are as strict and complicated as they should be.

Missed Myton
Adults do not follow the same uniform code because they are adults. I thought this might be fairly obvious but no.

And Butt ugly!!! I have never in my life worn joggers and cannot think of anything worse.

There are other comfortable alternatives.

The logo, only available for extortionate price from one shop annoyed me.
They never had enough stock in correct sizes eg seeming shocked that they had sold lots of the yr7 sizes. Was always a hassle.
PE leggings decision by school was ridiculous. Covid they wore pe kit on pe day. Girls pe kit was a short skort. So teen girls walking through town or standing at bus stop in all weathers in tiny scrap of material. Boys could wear any joggers. Girls could not. The girls had a meeting with head to argue case, result was girls logo pe leggings £28! She wore them a handful of times before leaving. They couldn’t go in dryer or logo peeled off. I regret not raising it with school but dd didn’t want me to and she was yr11.
She’s still in uniform in sixth form which looks ridiculous to me (reminds me of Britney Spears video) but doesn’t have any supplier eg they wear any black skirt.

I finished school 8 years ago and it was the same then as you describe. The blazers in heatwaves, no rolling sleeves up, clip on ties, pencil skirts and cravats, no logos allowed on shoes or socks, earrings had to be able to fit through a hole punch. The teachers spouted that "preparing you for work" bollocks but they would regularly have coloured hair, facial piercings, bracelets etc which students weren't allowed

No workplace in the UK can insist a woman wears a dress or skirt.

The highest performing school locally is the girls grammar. The only school that doesn’t require a blazer, tie, expensive kilt style skirt.

I’m in favour of a uniform but it should be comfortable and practical for learning in. I was in secondary in the 80s/90s and we just had to wear the right colours with a tie. I have real sensory issues and would struggle with the fabrics that uniform is made of. My DD is autistic and it can be a real issue particularly when it is warm. I have managed to pursue a successful professional career never having to wear an uncomfortable uniform.

@ASGIRC

That's your personal, aesthetic opinion.

I live in joggers.

Absolutely. I would hate it is if was a mandatory thing in school!

but like I said, I despise uniforms of any kind. (so no, I also wouldnt want shirt and tie uniforms!)

The blazers are a really good idea for high school kids. Most won’t wear a coat, this keeps them warm, covers the girls as the shirts are see through and pockets for DS to keep everything he owns in lol.

I live in a country that routinely comes above the UK in terms of educational outcomes and has no school uniforms (other than some private schools). Our teens seem to manage to have their teenage rebellion without being forced into overpriced and poor quality logoed uniform in 31° heat.
I went to private school in the UK for KS2 and onwards and wore a strict uniform. It made shit all difference to how well I learnt, I did well because I wanted to learn and enjoyed it.

I'd be interested in seeing the change in behaviour standards if schools did away with uniform for 6 months.

@PiddleOfPuppies The school I mentioned earlier in the thread say they’ve noticed the benefits in behaviour since going with the relaxed uniform.

They originally had the ‘any black trousers as long as they cover your underwear to the extent they can’t be seen, a shirt or polo-shirt and a hoodie or cardigan” uniform when the HT didn’t want parents buying the old more expensive uniform when there could be another lockdown.

They said they noticed an instant difference in behaviour, and attitude, from some pupils because they weren’t walking in the door in the morning and getting straight into conflict over attire

The DC's primary school has a sensible uniform, standard trousers/ skirts/ shorts, polos or shirts (default tends to be plain polo) uniform colour sweat shirt, may be logoed or not. Everyone looks decent on the class photos, there's a bit of personality there but it's all cohesive and no one really takes the mick.

The secondary uniforms are all blazer/ tie, no jumpers and varying degrees at being pedantic. Fortunately DS's is more accepting of generic items which is better as being a lean trouser, I can buy him slim cut generic items. If he went to the nearest school which changes uniform at each academy take over, he'd look like he was lost in a sack of spuds in the prescribed outfiter's boxy cut.

It's daft when DH and DS leave the house together and DH is there off to a niche professional role in a cosy jumper and DS looks like he's going off to sell second hand cars.

If uniform is a leveller, it needs to be practical and affordable.

I've taught in non-uniform schools and it was great. People just wore clothes. It was a deprived area and there wasn't any point proving to be made. No escalating rows because you'd challenged a minor point of uniform (as directed by SLT) that resulted in errupting pupils who'd then rant their way to exclusions and parental complaints, wasting a huge amount of learning and planning time. The black jeans themselves weren't actually inhibiting learning potential in the first place.

"If you don't like it, go elsewhere" doesn't work when the nearest school doing something different is miles away in a different LA. It's also pretty shit for a ND child with sensory issues that wastes part of their capacity each day on ignoring scratchy tie clips, and hot itchy knees. Fortunately his school is less pedantic than others which eases anxiety a bit.

Our high school is sensible, white shirt and tie any black jumper (no logo), any plain black shoes (can be trainers) any black trousers or skirt (can be jeans) so long as not see through/ super short.

In practice DS wears black trainers, black jeans/ shorts in this weather/ short sleeved shirt and tie.

The “if you don’t like it go elsewhere” also doesn’t work when schools (especially academies) change the uniform after the child has started.

especially if they are in, or very close to, exam years when the change comes in

Ongoing confidence
Teachers are adults. They do not need to follow the uniform policy. They are however subject to a staff dress code.

But the slightest transgression is met with draconian consequences, so how is that "something to rebel against without it being a big deal and better than them rebelling against something with more consequences."

As far as preparing for adult working life, how do you think all the countries with no school uniform (many of them like the Nordics, Italy, France hardly known for being scruffy) manage?

You'll never get an answer if you bring up the fact that other countries' schools seem to cope, and even flourish, without uniforms. The UK (apparently) has nothing to learn from other, more successful, education systems.

This!

There is lots of evidence to suggest other countries manage their children's education differently, e.g. children start formal education at 7+, no uniforms, with much more successful outcomes. The UK are using guidance for some subjects that's almost 30 yrs old (e.g. RE).

The UK education system is long overdue an overhaul.

YANBU. I’ve got to locate some acceptable trousers for a dd who will refuse to wear the pleated uniform skirt. She’s rather well upholstered in the bottom and thigh department so it’s going to be a nightmare to find anything that doesn’t look illegally ‘skinny fit’ on her.

Don’t get me started on ‘business dress’ for sixth form - one of the most ridiculous rules that has crept in lately.

Totally agree. It's outdated and makes no sense. I also hate the fact that students can't dye their hair, wear more than a set of studs or show their individuality in any visible way. There can be a basic uniform (eg black trousers and a polo shirt) without requiring kids to be carbon copies of each other.

That's probably the one that I work at. Ours is the only one in the area that doesn't have a blazer. We also, however, don't have skirts - trousers for everyone up to year 10. They can look scruffy, but I don't mind, and the trousers thing saves a lot of bother.

I wore full uniform including blazer with shirt and tie from age 7. Bog standard primary and comprehensive in the 80s and 90s.

I would have loved a regulation beret like someone mentioned! I liked wearing all of it and hated that 6th form was no uniform.

YANBU. I wouldn’t mind a simple, practical uniform, but DD’s school is crazy - blazer, tie, logo jumper, rules about haircuts, horrible regulation skirts and trousers. And it’s all loathsome sweaty polyester and acrylic; I work in a pretty formal organisation and I wouldn’t wear clothes like that in summer ever. (My suits are wool for winter and linen for summer.) They don’t have a summer uniform and they have to ask permission to take the blazer and tie off even in a major heatwave.

The saving grace is that they can wear what they like in the sixth form- just hope the rules don’t change before DD gets there.