To wonder if there comes a point where you just have to give up work?

[Bluewatersummer]

I’m hopefully not there yet. But while I wish I could be very feminist about this the fact is DH earns a lot more than me and he always will, his talents lie where money is.

With one child we have managed through a combination of part time, taking turns to take time off when needed, and some good luck as well - haven’t had a lot of sickness to contend with. However, I’m due my second any day now and I’m wondering about a whole host of stuff.

It’s going to be so difficult when DC1 starts school and when DC2 is in nursery, reliance on wraparound care and rushing from A to B to C. I don’t honestly know if it is just easier for everyone - not just me - if one parent gives up work and just has their ‘job’ the children and house. Which isn’t very feminist but would potentially make a big difference to stress levels! Honestly wondering what others think: I’m not making any big decisions just yet.

I am answering your thread title.

It's difficult for many, for many reasons. If you want to stay home with your kids then do, taking into account what's best for you and your family, long term and short term. Or just because you fancy it. That's your choice. But don't make out that women - generally - don't have a choice in this. That there aren't other options.

I am through all of this on the other side so I will give you my take. My youngest child is now in year 12 so just finishing first year of sixth form. I became a sahm when Ds1 was 2 having previously been part time. My disability became worse so it made sense to give my body a break, it was meant to be for a couple of years.

It is absolutely the best thing we ever did, it completely worked for us, Dh was able to concentrate on his career enabling me to stay home and have a lifestyle that doesn't involve scrimping and scraping in fact far from it. We didn't have any family around to provide any childcare for us and I had friends with older children who I watched pour over calendars with their husbands working out who was taking time off when, when they could get a 2 week overlap over summer to go on holiday, working out summer club schedules etc. School holidays are 13 weeks of the year, unless you work term time only no one has that much leave from their paid job.

I was able to clean, cook, shop, do all the school runs, all sick children pick ups or have them at home without worrying about a boss being pissed off. Dh made it to every sports day, was a completely involved hands on Dad who relished his parenting role. He has a very strong loving bond with both our sons. He literally finished work and came home to a meal prepared for him. All the housework was done in the day by me when the children were older, none on weekends leaving us both free to spend time together as a family, one on one with each child and time on our own too with no resentment. But he also did bath times, bed times, came home and rolled his sleeves up and got straight into any parenting duties, it wasn't all left to me, when he was here he was available.

Dh's Mum had been a sahm, mine had worked full time, we used to get ourselves ready for school and walk there ourselves. I was 8 with a sibling to take with me as my Dad worked away a lot like your Dh does. Our relationship has worked, we are incredibly happy but there has to be respect from your Dh for the job you do (seems appreciated if you pay someone to look after your child but if a parent does it somehow it is lazy or easy) you need to have the same thoughts on spending money and you need to pay into a pension for yourself.

It can also be mind-numbing and dull, repetitive, the drudgery of housework is endless (thank god for Podcasts/streaming radio you can rewind if you miss something) and incredibly lonely. Only myself and one other person have stayed home with children in secondary school and beyond. We both believe it was the best decision we made. I am very happy in my own company.

Deep down I think most mums are great mums, I work with mums who have young children and they are also fabulous and close to their children. I just wanted to post something positive about my experience and how proud I am of my children. If I had put my full life story in the post you may have read something different in it, but I genuinely wanted to keep it positive. We’re all different with varying circumstances and we all have to make choices throughout our lives.

I agree.

If you want to be a SAHM, be a SAHM but it is almost always a want not a 'have to'.

My NDN and friend did this when her DC 2 was about 2 years old. It was getting too busy for her juggling childcare and a demanding secondary teaching job. Then she had DC3 so this cemented her decision. As far as I’m aware she pays into a private pension and NI contributions and her job is such that she can return later. She’s currently with her family on another continent sort of temporarily where she cannot work as a teacher without retraining. Her DH is a big earner though and she’s very good with finances eg not spending much.

It really depends on you, I do know some parents who pause their careers whilst having second children and then restart when both kids are at school. Childcare costs are prohibitive so that affects decisions too.

I mean, at different times it can be really difficult for most people to work. Everyone finds it hard sometimes.

Generally you don't have to give up work. You may prefer not to work and find it easier not to. But it's a choice.

@Thepeopleversuswork Agree. I have seen enough marriages to fail now to believe that you should never depend on a man's money. It's the "while I wish I could be very feminist about it" that I was responding to.

I’ve tried to be fairly clear I don’t think women should do anything, or men. But if you get to a point where the pressure on one person is such that things aren’t working too well, it’s the lower earner. I know that was badly worded but if someone has a disciplinary because of time off then it’s sensible for the lower earner to take that rather than compromise the higher earners career. That’s obviously a fairly drastic sort of scenario but can happen!

Well presumably by asking the question on an open forum you are looking for a range of answers? I am coming from a few years down the line and I can tell you that in in your late 40's, 50's and 60's the decision you make now may have big consequences. I know far too many couples where relying on one 'big' wage has become really problematic. Sickness and poor health can hit anyone and its a killer if its the high earner. Thats before you get into the whole divorce stats (and yes I know I know no one thinks it will be them but the power/money dynamic can have an impact). Both things can leave the SAHM spouse buggered, it is really really hard to get back into well paid work after 5 or more years away. There is work but not of the kind to support a family. It an 'all your eggs in one basket' risk. Why would you take such big risks with your and your kids financial future. If you can keep your hand in with your role/profession by being part-time/not pursuing big promotions then if you needed to you could step up if it became important.

Yep.

I'm not here to berate women who give up work. It's bloody difficult for all of us and we make the choices we have to make with our families' best intentions at heart.

I just find it highly irritating when people try to justify it as feminism. Own it as the best thing for you and your family by all means. It may be the best thing for your kids or allow you a better quality of life or whatever but you can't argue that being entirely supported by a man is a "feminist choice". There's just no way to square that circle.

It isn't really difficult to work through, it is only more difficult when you have a partner who thinks your job is a hobby and your 'real' job is actually to do all the parenting.

Quiting work is only indulging his point of view. A better scenario would be for him to also parent his own children.

@Bluewatersummer just become a sahm! Its okay, no one will blame you for failing to dismantle the patriarchy 😁
No one knows if the power imbalance, lack of independence, hit to your progression etc is better or worse than the stress you will experience by remaining in work. I do get what you're saying about your husband's career needing to take priority.

My experience is different. Neither one of us are big earners, we are not in sectors that will ever allow for the money I assume your husband is on. After mat leave I went to work 3 days a week. For those 3 days, we juggled. If my little one was ill we compared diaries etc and decided who would stay home. My DH did plenty of nursery runs, sick days, cooked meals etc etc. Now I'm full time and we still operate like that, we take equal hits.

However, my DH would be really annoyed and offended if I took on the primary parent role. He would feel it's unfair - on him! - not to be included in the difficult bits as well, as it's part of parenting. I think we need more men who unquestioningly roll up their sleeves and pitch in with the actual parenting bits, rather than see their primary role as the money earner/ football tosser/ day out at the zoo kind of guy.

I think it’s totally fine to say ‘know what, for the next few years I’m giving up work outside the home to concentrate on my family/wains’ etc. It’s like women aren’t allowed to say that or do that anymore without feeling failures.
It won’t be forever.

Absolutely! When I was a SAHP it certainly wasn't all quality time with my toddler!

It isn't really difficult to work through, it is only more difficult when you have a partner who thinks your job is a hobby and your 'real' job is actually to do all the parenting.

Again, this is simply not true in every case. It was more difficult for me to work for practical reasons, such as accessibility of transport to the areas I would've needed to go to vs where my DH needed to go. Medical issues. The industries we work in and ability to work from home, or lack of.
Many many things that actually impact people's lives.

My DH thinks it's fantastic when I'm working and bringing in money and using my brain, and fantastic when I'm choosing not to and focusing on other things.

It's true in most cases though. It isn't a coincidence that it's largely only women who 'have' to stop working.

Is it not also a fact that many women are fundamentally programmed by nature to want to be with, nurture and mother their children? I certainly did.

Or socially conditioned?

We live in an incredibly sexist society. Girls are socialised from birth to be the default parent as adults, it's so ingrained that it can be hard to recognise.

I think the Feminist thing to do would be to both work part time, both continue with your career and both do your share of the caring.

It’s a bit less money than only your husband working but better for him and you to share the financial and caring load. I know so many people where the earner becomes resentful or the carer feels downtrodden. It also gives you jointly more resilience, so when your high earning husband burns out or gets made redundant you have a second income.

No, I don't think it is a fact. I think it's an opinion, held by some and rejected by others.

What is your scientifically proven evidence for claiming that this is a fact?

I’m other side of things dc is 17. I’d say nothing has to be forever.
See how maternity goes. Then think about trying sahm for a year. Clear plans re how to retain employability and financials agreed.
Keep communicating and reviewing.
When I had dc I did same job and same salary as dh. Office based. 17 yrs later I’m ft in a completely different role mainly wfh and he’s self employed wfh with lots of travel.
Do what is best for you all now. But don’t forget the you in that. That means frank conversations about if he dies or you separate.

@Sissynova but then what do you suggest, seriously? DH gets a job that pays poorly and I work FT just so that my job isn’t a ‘hobby’? More stress less money but everything is ‘fair.’

I’m not sure I want to be a SAHM! But once my DC1 starts school, it will be tough, there’s no two ways about it. I’ll have to drop him at school for wraparound care then drop my DC2 at nursery then onto work myself, same thing in reverse at the end of the day. illness is tough to manage as are things like eg the strikes and so on.

I’m not making any big decisions, there are benefits to me working but equally there are benefits to me NOT working.

I think a lot of blokes simply don't ask for flexibility or see what's possible with their work. I do wonder about that with the OP's DH. Senior people are usually highly valued.

I was headhunted for a project which is usually very long hours/inflexible - I said yes on condition that I could log off for an hour at 6pm every day to put my baby to bed. They said yes.

My DH was headhunted for a role too - they told him it had to be full time, he said no that he wanted to continue with four days a week. They said .. ok then! And he is the only bloke in his office who regularly leaves early/minimises travelling. They wanted him enough to deal with it.

I am not saying this is doable in every job but I think the OP is being a bit dramatic with the suggestions that if her DH does some parenting/sick days, suddenly his job will be on the line or he will have to give it up entirely for something low paid

I don't believe I was socially conditioned. My mother didn't want children and worked. I knew from the minute I can remember that I wanted to be a mummy. I know many women who are similar.

Had mine been about social conditioning I wouldn't have forged a career in a "man's world" on a trading floor to facilitate my dream.

So, so many times I have heard "I have to go back to work, I have no choice." True feminists and independent women give themselves choices.

It seems to me that giving up work would make your life much easier and you can manage financially. You are not working up a career ladder so could step back into work later (though IME older children are just as much work in different ways).
So that leaves pension. You could set up a pension for you that DH pays into?

I wouldn't say you should feel guilty for giving up work any more than you might feel guilty for working. Do what suits the family at the time.

Disclaimer I worked part time when I had DC and in hindsight wish I had given up work. My friends who had very high earning spouses or spouses who worked away gave up work and were perfectly happy.