To wonder if there comes a point where you just have to give up work?

[Bluewatersummer]

I’m hopefully not there yet. But while I wish I could be very feminist about this the fact is DH earns a lot more than me and he always will, his talents lie where money is.

With one child we have managed through a combination of part time, taking turns to take time off when needed, and some good luck as well - haven’t had a lot of sickness to contend with. However, I’m due my second any day now and I’m wondering about a whole host of stuff.

It’s going to be so difficult when DC1 starts school and when DC2 is in nursery, reliance on wraparound care and rushing from A to B to C. I don’t honestly know if it is just easier for everyone - not just me - if one parent gives up work and just has their ‘job’ the children and house. Which isn’t very feminist but would potentially make a big difference to stress levels! Honestly wondering what others think: I’m not making any big decisions just yet.

I kept my job but "leaned out" aka went part time and was prepared to be the one to take unpaid parental leave.

It was frustrating when incompetent men were promoted above me but I shut my eyes to it and reminded myself the job was about keeping my hand in for when the situation would be more manageable.

I know too many women whose husband's started shagging their secretary or taking them for granted and they were stuck because they had elected to be a SAHP to take the risk.

Until the kids were at school I
(1) was always the one to take days unpaid to cover sickness
(2) took unpaid parental leave to cover the school holidays
(3) Did the majority of childmin.

The kids are now older. I'm back at work full time, although from home with compressed hours around after-school and before-school childcare two days a week. My husband and I both classify as "high earners".

I think it depends on the industry you're in. In law, it's almost impossible to get back in if you stop completely. A lot of friends have qualified into teaching as a route back into work but that obviously isn't without its pressures (they say less than full time corporate law incidentally)

I also have seen a significant proportion of the older Stay at home forever women develop dementia which women are far more likely to get than men and which some studies suggest is caused by isolation and not having a job. Jobs protect your brains.

I have a decent pension (paid into without any breaks - my DHs improving salary covered this for years) so I do think it's sensible now to focus on the present not live for the future.

I admire the woman people who manage to make it work with little children, but it's not for everyone, and the stress is not worth the extra pension payments or career progression for many. Kudos to those who don't experience stress or burnout throughout this time working full time with a family but ime they are in the minority, amongst both mothers and fathers. In fact I've never met any (maybe my circle is exceptional in this way).

Indeed. And whilst everyone tends to think this kind of thing will never happen to them, it can, and does. A "blissfully happily married" friend of mine has just been dumped for another woman. She had only intended to take a few years out of work when they had their first baby, then they had more, then everyone was used to it and she never went back. Her STBXH waited until the youngest child had started University so he has no child support obligations and there's no reason why she can't work so he walks away basically scot free. She is now a middle aged woman who despite having a decent degree is working long hours in a minimum wage job to keep afloat. With no recent work experience there is zero possibility of her returning to her pre children career and whilst she could in theory still retrain in something else, she has bills to pay in the meantime so she's stuck.
And its not just infidelity. Partners get ill, injured or even die unfortunately. I left work some years ago after a perfectly normal day. There were documents open on my desk ready for the next morning. Except someone hit me head on on the wrong side of the road on my way home and I never went back to work again. That was never in my life plan! Shit happens, and it doesn't care who it happens to. In my opinion everyone should maintain as much financial independence as they can, because none of us knows what's round the corner (literally in my case!)
Of course if people choose to take that risk that's there business, but don't pretend it's not a risk or assume that nothing could happen to you.

@newstart1234 so you do think about the future then 🤷‍♀️

I think making the choice for one person to stop paid employment is fine, so long as they are equally considered in terms on finances (eg a pension is being paid into and same access to savings as the employed person). Also some thought given to how the person giving up employment can keep up skills etc to be able to renter work force. also the person working should recognise that they don’t get to opt out of parenting completely.

I would never NEVER give up work and no have any savings, or pensions etc and take on ALL of the parenting 24/7.

Which isn’t very feminist but would potentially make a big difference to stress levels!

I think staying home to look after your children is a feminist choice. I watch women exhaust themselves with full time work, pick ups/drop offs, arranging holiday cover etc whilst The Man with the Big Job just concentrates on being Busy and Important.

If all wives/partners stopped being so accommodating I'm sure that - with a few exceptions - the Big Man would find out he didn't really need to be in Swindon at 8pm - he could be home putting his kids to bed instead.

These threads always imply there has to be some kind of consensus and one size fits all. There are so, so, so many variables that it's impossible to say. There are pros and cons in both directions.

I do think that the duration of struggling with this (five years-ish?) might be shorter than the duration of impact on earning ability and career progression, which is lifelong really. And you're putting all your eggs in one basket to rely on DH to earn.

I wrestle with this but do 3 days in 4 so I finish at 3pm each day and can get the kids. I'm restless and bored but it's still probably the best option for now. I have DC at school-hours, term-time nursery and DC in year 1.

Well said.

I also want to add that working parents also raise their children. Nurseries/nannies etc care for children but they don't raise them.

But I do think life was a lot simpler and people were more content when the man worked and the women did the house and kids.

Try telling that to women like my mother who were desperately unhappy at home because they were so bored and unfulfilled. Being a SAHP destroyed my mum's confidence and mental health, and she hasn't ever properly recovered. Not going back to work is her single biggest regret.

It's fine for families where it suits the SAHP to be at home and the WOHP is happy to be the main breadwinner, but it certainly doesn't work for everyone. Lots of people aren't suited to being at home. Lots of people don't want to be the sole breadwinner.

Indeed.

Not going to lie but we have just reduced down to one parent working. We have a 2 year old and 5 year old. 2 year old in nursery and 5 year old in reception. School and nursery fun is 40 min each way twice a day.

My kids are out of the house from 8am till 5.30pm.

I commute and my partner worked from home. I am out from 7am till 6.30pm each day. Walk through the door straight into bath time, bed time, then clear the kitchen, laundry, make dinner and eventually if I am lucky sit down to relax at 9pm before it stays all over again.

The first year back after mat leave I used to feel physically sick when the phone rang from school or nursery as to who could collect, who had to cancel work stuff, working till midnight once sick child had gone to bed.

Now my partner is going to take 6 months off so that we can recover - so our children can do less childcare while they are little and be home for the summer.

We can get fit again

I don't see a short term break to be a disaster to help when they are smaller

Yes of course I think about the future. But I don't have any plans for retirement though in that I don't have something I plan on doing that is not possible to do whilst working. You said you don't want to work into your 70s because 'I have plans'. That position doesn't fit with my preferences and that's fine.

But I do think life was a lot simpler and people were more content when the man worked and the women did the house and kids.

I'm not really sure that's the case though. A lot of women historically ended up trapped in unhappy marriages, and separation wasn't really an option back then. Many led incredibly small and restricted lives, were financially abused, domestically abused, unvalued, treated as skivvies. I don't think people were any happier back then, just nobody spoke about it.

By 'people' being more content, I generally think that just means 'men' were more content, and of course they were.

Indeed. My mum was exactly the same. She gave up a stellar career to have kids (because it was the 70s and that was what you did) and basically never worked again. It contributed to mental illness, high levels of anxiety, financial insecurity and nearly cost her her marriage. She was never herself again and she made me promise that I would never ever give up work.

We really need to fight back against this rose-tinted view of non-working women. The reality for a lot of women who didn't work after having kids was financial insecurity, boredom and a general feeling of lack of purpose.

It's fine if people want to do it and can afford it but presenting it as idyllic or aspirational is very problematic.

I don't think it's anti-feminist to do what's best for your kids and your family.

I gave up my office job when I had a baby as I moved away from the area where the jobs were. But I established a freelance career, very small at first but it has grown as I have had more time now after 12 years is probably close to paying what I earned at my old job.

Giving up work entirely is fine if you know there will be a job to go back to, or if you don't want to. Personally I am glad I kept my career ticking over now that my kids need me less. But I don't regret staying home for their early years.

It would be easier for me not to work, I don't have to financially and it isn't easy but is the easy option always the right option? I don't think so.

I work because I have a son and I'm determined that he will grow up seeing that women can have careers and they aren't just there to cook, clean and do the laundry as well as him seeing that men aren't just providers, they can cook, clean and care for children. There's no better way to do that than by actually doing it and setting that example.

I refuse to be the default parent just because I have a vagina. Fuck that.

I stopped working when I had my first dc. I have a passive income stream so I'm quite well protected financially and DH is a high earner so we pay the max into a private pensions, ISA and LISA in both our names. One DC at school now and a young toddler at home. Life is definitely more relaxed for us as a family compared to other families at school who are mostly 2 f/t earners. Weekends are just for for fun family time rather than dealing with chorses or fitting in clubs, as I can ferry mine to after school clubs. I'm looking forward to the summer holidays because I can spend quality time with both dcs instead of worrying about finding decent childcare.

DH does his fair share with the dc and housework when he's home, so we're very much a partnership. I would just make sure all the financial side makes sense and you're secure enough there.

I am sometimes stressed by working and having young children - of course there are stressful moments! - but I honestly don't feel all that stressed.

I wouldn't feel happier giving up work. For a few reasons but mainly:

I like my job and find it intellectually stimulating

I don't like the idea of being everyone's facilitator - I think I would end up quite depressed which is different to being stressed but not better..

I think I would be much closer to burnout if I was a SAHM to be honest.

One of us will take a year's career break when I finish mat leave - probably DH. It is a sacrifice because it means we'll be over a year on one salary only but we can just about manage it. We want to look after our youngest at home til she's two. Then she'll go into childcare. However one of us giving up full time work on a permanent basis just isn't on the cards at all. If we did that, we would be condemning ourselves to poverty for the rest of our lives. I like working too and would feel very strange not going out and earning my own money. If we receive an inheritance over the next few years, we might be able to pay the mortgage and then both go part time. I would want to share with my husband. No way would I ditch work and still expect him to be full time! If you're a team, you share the wealth.

Also the illness thing really is child dependent, unfortunately. I've been called once to collect DD1 in three years of nursery - when she developed scarlet fever. She's maybe missed four or five days in that time to illness, but it was a sick bug we all had so we weren't really up to working either. And because I work part-time, luck dictates that at least some of the times a kid is unwell falls on one of my days off. Other than that, she's rarely ill other than colds, and our nursery rule is 'snotty but happy is fine'. So it's not a given you will spend your life picking up ill children and having to take time off. Some kids are more suspectible and harder hit by bugs than others, though, so if you get unlucky, it could make life substantially more difficult.

Also I would just wait till nearer the end of your mat leave, OP, before making any decisions. At home with two full time can be very different to being at home with one older child. You might get to the end of maternity leave and really need to go back to work for your own wellbeing, or you might have loved it so much you wanted to stay off.

I've recently gone back to work after having DD2 and although I did enjoy maternity leave, I was absolutely ready to go back to work by the end of it.

I feel the same way.

I'd find it boring and tedious. I'd be miserable as a SAHM, honestly.

OP, you will no doubt get the usual intense projecting now from people who, for their very own reasons, seem to think the very concept of a SAHM is an affront to their parenting or to their concept of feminism or whatever.

Their family is not your family, Their personality / motivations are not yours. Their job is not yours. Nor is their husband! It doesn't matter one bit what anyone else thinks. Ask 100 women and you will get 100 different scenarios.

Fwiw, I was in your position and never went back to work. As a family we have been more financially secure into the medium / long-term as a result. I could not have imagined us both working with three children. It's not compulsory! Far from it.

You know better than anyone else your financial circumstances and risk. Being a SAHM is absolutely fine. It's a personal choice only you can make.

I spent a decade following my husband round the country and doing peacemeal jobs around the kids so that his high paying career could be prioritised. He's now decided he's had enough of me and is off to spend his three figure salary on himself while I work full time and manage two kids. It would be a lot easier for me right now if my earning power hadn't been decimated by the time spent facilitating his career.