To wonder if there comes a point where you just have to give up work?

[Bluewatersummer]

I’m hopefully not there yet. But while I wish I could be very feminist about this the fact is DH earns a lot more than me and he always will, his talents lie where money is.

With one child we have managed through a combination of part time, taking turns to take time off when needed, and some good luck as well - haven’t had a lot of sickness to contend with. However, I’m due my second any day now and I’m wondering about a whole host of stuff.

It’s going to be so difficult when DC1 starts school and when DC2 is in nursery, reliance on wraparound care and rushing from A to B to C. I don’t honestly know if it is just easier for everyone - not just me - if one parent gives up work and just has their ‘job’ the children and house. Which isn’t very feminist but would potentially make a big difference to stress levels! Honestly wondering what others think: I’m not making any big decisions just yet.

I was going to say this too.

I went back to work on a very low salary when dd was settled in reception. It was more than worth it because I had no childcare expenses and was local. Provided a springboard for a second career.

One thing I would say is that working part-time meant I didn't feel I could subcontract additional cleaning, cooking, ironing, shopping childcare. So I left the house at 8am, dropped ds, drove to dd's school, did her hair in the car, and started work at 9.15. Finished at 2.30, whizzed home to do dishwasher and process a load of laundry: out of the washer, on the horse, dry off the horse and put away, next load on, wiped down the kitchen, collected dd, collected ds, juggled their after school stuff, tea at 6.30ish, tidied up, homework, reading, baths, pj's. Sat down about 9pm as dh came in. Ate with him, had a glass of wine, bed at 10.30.

When I went back full-time the cleaner did more cleaning and the ironing and the au-pair sorted the dc. I breezed in at 6.30pm. Much, much easier and the same money at the end of it but with a much better pension and better progression prospects.

Taking seven years off the treadmill, plus 10 yeats on much lower pay undoubtedly cost about £750,000 gross, less tax, ni and childcare, probably about £300,000 net.

But then I locked in 20 years' pension contributions into a final salary pension scheme in 2013, fss closed in 2014. My earnings post 2017 rocketed to six figures. That wouldn't have happened had I stayed working in the commercial sector. Part luck, part planing.

. I loved my stress free sahm 7 years. If you’re professionally trained and smart you can work again. All the friends I made in my sahm years are now back doing what they were doing or career changed to what they always wanted to do. You’re appealing to employers. Older, sensible - no mat leaves!

One friend went from running the pta to being right hand of the ceo of her new company she sat in his office and he ran all his decisions past her!

Nothing wrong with being a SAHP but WOHP’s children are not raised by “a succession of randoms” they are still raised by their parents even if they are looked after by childcare professionals or grandparents or similar some of the time. And good childcare providers should do care broadly in line with parents preferred routines, food options etc.

The one raising the child decides where they go to get care, what they eat, where they sleep at night, where they go to school, what they wear, etc etc, is there for them when they are ill, is there for them as often as possible when not working.

I mean I think most of us would balk at the idea of a grandparent who did childcare saying they were the one who “raised” their grandchild. Would you really say that only you, and not your DH raised your children when he was working out of the home?

Lol at the idea of the children of WOHPs being "raised by a succession of randoms"!

If you want to be a SAHP, your partner agrees and you can fund that lifestyle, you don't have to justify your choices to anyone. Your life, your family, your choices.

But ffs, don't feel like you have to come up with a load of bullshit stories about WOHPs to legitimise your choices. Be confident in your own decisions and stop trying to trash the decisions made by other people. You just make yourself look like a very insecure twat.

This thread is so confusing now. No one has mentioned minimum wage jobs, but the argument seems to be I have to stay part time because then I’m going to be in an ideal position to pursue my career in my mid fifties - I really won’t be! (I doubt I would WANT to either!)

When I’m 54 I’m going to be looking at winding down not scrambling up!

And believe it or not I’m not really bothered by the whole working/SAHM debate. What is clear to me is that staying part time and juggling everything won’t be for me so looking at alternatives - which probably won’t involve giving up altogether but is a possibility I won’t completely discount either.

Good posts. Agree with all this esp the last paragraph.

‘When you base feminism on being about choice, you ignore that those choices aren’t made in a vacuum. We are all part of the whole.’

We need both men and women on board with this.

I think it’s one of those decisions you just can’t generalise it’s so personal and dependent on your character / marriage / future employability and industry or profession you are in. Personally took the “risk” of a few years out as secure in my marriage don’t rely on my job for my identity and knew I had a skill I could crank up if Dh had a personality transplant and ran off with his secretary. Good luck op hope you find a better way.

Also don’t shoot me but I wanted to be around. So wasn’t just for kids benefit but mine too! My job was so consuming I didn’t even want to kill myself trying to do both.

Honestly just do what works best for you and your family at the time. You might find it’s fine continuing working and that be great but if you don’t and think you’ll be happier at home with the kids then do that. Again if that changes there’s nothing to stop you going back to work.
I’ve done all manner of combinations over the years. I’m now in a job I love and so glad I went for it but it all came about by coincidence.
The only thing I regret are the times when I didn’t decide to just be a SAHM for a while when I wanted to be (and would of saved heaps of stress) because I worried what everyone would think, what would happen if became single etc etc.
It meant I spent many of the precious early years of my older children’s lives stressed, not being able to enjoy them etc and in the end it didn’t get me anywhere that I wouldn’t of got to if I’d just taken that time out.

It's funny on here how some posters use their concept of feminism as a stick to beat others with (and also to make themselves feel better, clearly).

Yes feminism is about equality of opportunity - in the workplace, in terms of gender roles, etc.

Whst about if a woman has achieved all that, but she hits a certain age and feels hollow inside. She has the 'great career' she wanted / was told she should want but she feels trapped. She has the MN '50/50' husband, but finds him boring. She feels like she's just going through the motions - but it's the perfect 'feminist' lifestyle, yes? What should she do? Carry on in the name of feminism? Or just be honest that actually, she wants something different.

There are all types of women and all types of perspectives. Where I come from, a man who expected his wife to put a six month old in childcare would not be seen as feminist. He'd be seen as cruel. Yet, on MN, there are people who think the 'get back to work asap' and 2 full-time working parents with children in full-time childcare is somehow what we have to aspire to. One woman's ideal or 'peak feminism' really is another woman's nightmare.

She can want something different, of course she can. It wouldn't magically make that choice feminist though.

This exactly, it’s about a fair partnership and just fairness over all so in sickness and health and all that too. If you’re a man who loves your job and you’re a woman who just wants to be with their baby or vice versa, the sensible thing to do is do what you both enjoy doing! If you both would rather work then use a nursery/childminder but at least value the people (usually women)working hard to bring up your children. The whole things about the marriage contract is that you should get a fair split of assets during the time you have maybe spent doing very differently rewarded roles. This will include for example pension sharing too. If you think taking time out will lead to you not being at as high as pay grade if you did split them this is a consideration people have to think about.

SouthLondonMum22 - if all feminism means (according to some people on here), is - families with 2 parents working flat out while the cost of living rises; while paying thousands for other women on minimum wage (or close to it) to look after their babies / young children for the majority of their waking hours.... that would be a hard "no" from me. Not how I want to live and not the life I want for my children.

Your assumption it’s poorly paid women looking after the babies is telling.

absolutely fine for a couple to decide one partner should stay at home. The issue is that 99% of the time it’s the female partner that does it because of the inherent sexism in our society. Eg Women in roles that tend to pay less or can be more easily considered for part time. The vast majority of men wouldn’t dream of taking a career break to look after children. That isn’t a coincidence.

Well no, but the PP does have a point. It isn’t a comfortable one but the things we are urged to do as women to make our lives easier and more comfortable DO involve paying someone, usually a woman, not very much. Cleaner, nursery nurse, carers for elderly parents, yes some are men but it’s not many, is it?

I don’t have the answers here but it is something that is worthy of consideration.

I do think the days of having to start again at the bottom of the ladder when you’ve had a couple of years off with the children are long gone. I had nearly 8 years off at one point, and I did not struggle to get back in at the same level. I then went self-employed for another eight years and again I’ve secured roles with very good salaries. The gap has not made any difference.

I disagree, I think it is the fact that a lot of mothers prefer to be at home with their children, especially if there is no financial benefit to working. When I went back to work it cost us more in childcare costs than I earned so all our spare money and more went on funding that gap. Just an expense of having children. It didn’t mean it wasn’t possible for me to return to work, plus was only temporary. We’re now much better off than if I hadn’t returned

College years are very expensive - if you leave the workforce now could be very difficult to get back into it.
In 30s everyone aim is to finish up retirement ect in 50s however I find people who have done part time ect increase days when the college years kick in.

I’ll be in my sixties by then - so ah, no!

I have taken two years-long breaks from work plus a mat leave. I went back from mat leave having been promoted twice from my previous position, and after the two breaks walked straight into good jobs - one part-time. Again, I know that won't work for everyone but in no way did me not 'currently' being employed prevent me from getting each job I went for.

OP I think you know better than anyone else on here what things you need to consider about Sometimes the logistics of it all is almost a PT job in itself!

That post got mangled - consider about taking time out, the realities of your particular job, practicalities, logistics and feelings about taking time out.

How are college years expensive? My DC expenses same when at college as before and receive student loans to fund their uni

Couldn't or you didn't want to send? We have a very high sick bar in our house (days at home are really limited to vomiting) as do many HCPs I know. Have you considered an au pair once both are in funded nursery.

I have a love hate relationship with my job but so glad I didn't just walk away when it got tough with DS. He's now 9 and at full time school plus hobbies so doesn't miss out on much mummy time (not that he needs much now) and we have a quality of life that is far above what we would have if I stayed home.

Definitely couldn’t - suspected chickenpox, vomiting, fevers, all sorts. It was tough going. Thankfully we are through it. Have to admit though I was always being sent into school even when unwell as my parents both worked and it was horrible.