To wonder if there comes a point where you just have to give up work?

[Bluewatersummer]

I’m hopefully not there yet. But while I wish I could be very feminist about this the fact is DH earns a lot more than me and he always will, his talents lie where money is.

With one child we have managed through a combination of part time, taking turns to take time off when needed, and some good luck as well - haven’t had a lot of sickness to contend with. However, I’m due my second any day now and I’m wondering about a whole host of stuff.

It’s going to be so difficult when DC1 starts school and when DC2 is in nursery, reliance on wraparound care and rushing from A to B to C. I don’t honestly know if it is just easier for everyone - not just me - if one parent gives up work and just has their ‘job’ the children and house. Which isn’t very feminist but would potentially make a big difference to stress levels! Honestly wondering what others think: I’m not making any big decisions just yet.

And actually I didn't even mention national insurance contributions in there

It’s worth looking at but part time really isn’t always the answer. Sometimes it solves problems but other times it creates them!

I'm a sahm to 4dc under 7 and I can't really imagine going to work. I feel i don't have enough hours in the day as it is. But, i didn't have a career as such - I was only 25 when I had my 1st so had only been working a couple of years - and my job was by no means a passion. I fully intend to start working part-time once the youngest is at school and I sometimes worry that re-entry into the workplace will be a struggle, but I still think it's better than dashing around like a blue-arsed fly and feeling (I'm not saying other people feel this way, but I would) that I'm not giving my all to my children and my job. My husband earns enough that we can manage on just his salary for now, with the intention being that once the youngest is at secondary I'll be back full time. I have to say all of our thinking has been based around us being a family unit rather than 2 individuals with shared responsibilities. So if he takes up bodybuilding and cocaine I'm screwed ... 😂

I was in the same boat as you. I worked part time even my husband worked a rotating shift (including nights). Quite often my child was unwell. The nursery was close to me, my husband was miles away and unable to pick up (no phones allowed where he works. All calls would have to go through his switchboard). So it always fell to me, to collect said sick child and go home. This happened alot. Then I had another child. I was stressed and overwhelmed with the house stuff, and being alone eith the kids when he was working lates. I left my Job to be a sahm. I loved it, it became so much easier. My youngest will leave primary school soon, that's when I'll get another job as she'll be more independent.

Tell me you know nothing about feminism without telling me

What about women who want to go to work? Why is it only women who should give up heir financial independence, career prospects, pension and life as something more than a parent? I really don’t see how you can dress up the concept that women should stay home with their children as a feminist one. Women should have the choice to do what’s best for them, as far as finances allow. Also just because the children in the childcare setting you were in were unhappy doesn’t mean that’s the same in all childcare settings!

Not sure who that was aimed at, @LT1982 but something I do know about feminism is that not all feminists think the same - something that is often lost on here amongst the ‘feminists think XXX’ sort of posts. Presenting as a lofty FACT that if you think X, you cannot be a feminist or indeed know anything about feminism is a very narrow view of what constitutes feminism.

I digress but there are plenty of disagreements amongst feminists - some of them pretty passionate.

Anyway, we’re only having one child for many many reasons but this is one. We both work full time on compressed hours so that we can do equal childcare (we also alrternate lie ins on the weekend etc) and that I think is an amazing thing for my daughter to see. She spends 4 days a week with one or both of her parents (and sees us for a few hours a day on the other three). Sickness issues have been hard and we’re exhausted from the long days but it has worked out otherwise well so far and we will both have no pension or financial reductions.

I had pressed reply to a comment which said women going back to work is "anti-feminist"

The whole point of feminism is for women to be treated equally and have the choice to work so telling working mothers they are anti-feminist is ridiculous.

The same poster claims childcare isn't good for children so she is clearly against working mums 🙄

There’s a certain amount of taking a particularly anti MN view sometimes on threads like this. For all I know, they might be that posters sincerely held views but I ah, doubt it, I’ll put it that way

There are so many different setups.

Mum and dad work full time and children are at nursery or with a nanny.
mum and dad work full time and children are cared for by grandparents or other family members.
Both parents work part time and child is cared for by a parent at all times
both parents work part time and child still has some paid childcare / cared for by family.
One parent works full time and one parent is a SAHP
One parent works full time and one parent is part time

And all combinations of above. And plus that’s only two parent families. I genuinely don’t think any of the above is ‘best.’ I really honestly don’t. I DO think that there will be a ‘this best fits our family’ out of the above.

Do what you think is best and it doesn't have to be a permanent decision. If you trial SAHM for 6 months or a year you may decide it's not for you and you want to go back to work or you might love it. The only way to find out is try. Maybe your employer offers sabbaticals or a career break?

Work out what is best for you all.

We did what worked for us: DH became SAHP to three DCs.

At the time DCs were 5, 1 and 4 weeks.

Before DC3 was born we both worked full time. DC1 was at nursery, DC2 went to a childminder. With 3 DC this was not going to work (cost and logistics).

DH being SAHP absolutely worked for us all. DCs are all now adults but they really benefitted having a parent around all the time.

DH now works PT in a NMW job. I think it is even harder for male returners than female. We sometimes joke it would have been easier if he had been in prison.

Honestly, I’m in a similar situation and is is genuinely easier all round for me to give up on working. Which I have done since my DS(3) was born. I’m now in sole charge of all of the domestic stuff, kids and general life admin (think buying insurance/gifts etc). This doesn’t mean that DH doesn’t help, he does, but only when I give him specific tasks. It’s much less stressful than juggling work/childcare and he now actually earns more money as a consequence. The downsize is that I miss the social interaction of working and the self fulfilment that it brings. Right now though, it’s definitely our best option and I don’t regret it.

I only found out about it when I was reading all the provider's information while setting up a personal pension for my husband. We went with Fidelity, which has an easy interface and plenty of good information for non-experts. You might like to look at their info even if you aren't going to choose them. They also have low management fees on their SIPP if you EITHER invest a lot of money with them OR set up a direct debit to put in at least £20 a month.

Anyway, here are the HMRC rules. Scroll down to the bottom where it says "If you do not pay Income Tax" https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-your-private-pension/pension-tax-relief

So it looks like you have to choose a personal pension provider which can claim the tax relief on your behalf from HMRC, but I think most are able to do that.

Typed an enormous reply then lost it. 😡

Feminism is not about choice for women. It’s about equality of opportunity. For me that’s largely about challenging the stereotypes and expectations that hold us back in society compared to men.

eg changing names. Women expected (at least) to consider changing names on marriage. Not expected of men so I didn’t do it.

titles. Women expected to use a title that denotes marital status. Not expected of men so I don’t either.

women expected to have a lower status role than male partner. Absolutely not.

women expected to be primary childcarer. Absolutely not. Once breast milk isn’t needed it’s an equal playing field here. DH has always been the primary contact for school and we have shared time off if DD is unwell.

women to do bulk of housework/mental load. Absolutely not. Didn’t allow this from day dot. If it doesn’t require an adult with a vagina, it’s anyone’s job. (True even when DH worked away 5.5 days a week.)

woman to go part time to do bulk of childcare/housekeeping because she earns less was NEVER an option in our household. Both of my parents worked full time without family help or paid childcare. Same with DD.

When you base feminism on being about choice, you ignore that those choices aren’t made in a vacuum. We are all part of the whole. Every woman making the choice to adopt the stereotype reinforces it in the matrix. Every woman rejecting the stereotype opens up an opportunity for other women to do the same.

I agree with everything you said. But it doesn't make women who go back to work anti-feminist if that is their choice.

How many years have been spent fighting for womens equality of treatment and equal pay at work? A mother choosing to work or having to for economic reasons is not anti-feminist

Are you going to address the comments of the poster I was replying to saying childcare is bad for children?

OP, you seem very clear that queening part time is not a good option. This appears to be about the juggle and the fact that it wouldn't offer any future protection anyways. Honestly the juggle does ease off, it does get easier. And they're are no two ways about it, staying in a job you are trained in have experience of (even part time) would give you far greater options if you were forced (for any reason) to return to earning. It may not be very enlightened but having 5-8 years out of work will not make you an appealing prospect for employers. It just won't.
That's before you get into the whole loss of identity, changes in relationship balance and the sheer drudge of domestic chores that clearly don't hold much appeal to you (or you wouldn't be mulling this over and saying you don't much fancy it but it would be easier). Easier is not doing something you don't really want to do for 8 years, that's not easy it's horrible. It will take a toll.

@hettie you are assuming it’s all the same. Everything you say above about me being out of work applies equally to part time. I’m not as appealing to employers, I still have a load of drudgery and not as much time to do it in.

I know everyone’s workplace is different but I’m definitely not going to be able to work PT until I am 53/54 (when Dc2 will leave primary) then go into a glittering career 😂

Sorry - I didn’t go that far back. I’ll look at that later.

The new breed of trad wife tends to dress this up as “feminism”. See also “feminism is about choice” which is a catch all slogan for “I want to stop work but I want to disguise this as feminism”. Or “being a SAHM is a valid choice”. Which is literally meaningless. The confusion around what feminism means on these boards often makes me utterly depressed.

Feminism is not fundamentally about choice (although choice should be an output of feminism). Feminism is about equality.

Someone will then invariably tip up to say “no feminist would judge another woman’s choice”. Which is true in as much as women should recognise other women’s choices are circumscribed and limited and not judge one another for making the best of what’s available to them. But it doesn’t follow from this that any choice made by any woman is a “feminist choice”.

I have no problem with women choosing not to work if if suits them and their families but claiming this is feminism in action is delusional nonsense.

If it’s what you want to do then it’s totally
Feminist - Feminism is about having choice not about automatically not wanting to parent or be a homemaker.

Anyway, if you think you would be able to manage financially, still have some independence from hubby (that would always be my main concern, how do you get out if you need to), and be happier/less stressed, I’d say quit work. You can always try to pick something up when they are a little older.

Do men have that same expectation/choice levied upon them?

no?

Then it it’s still based in sexism, isn’t an equal opportunity and therefore isn’t a feminist decision.

On what planet can giving up work (as was expected centuries ago) and being reliant on a man to provide for you and your children anything like a feminist decision?! 🤯

Same situation here DH earns double what I earn a month in a week, I tried not working and found it a little depressing, every day was Groundhog Day house work kids cooking more house work … I’ve found if I work I appreciate the days off I have and don’t get so frazzled with the kids. I work 20hrs but over 2 days so although those days are long it’s the only 2 days I have to sort childcare out for, I get a cleaner in and she does 3hrs per day on both my work days and she does my ironing too so days I’m at work I don’t come home to lots of chores just pop kids to bed and relax. I have had to have time off when kids been Ill but very rarely as it’s only 2/7 days so the chances of her being ill on a day im at work are reduced a bit. Not saying this will work for you , you might love being at home full time, I said I wouldn’t go back to work until DD started school .. lasted for a 18 months then just needed to be doing something more than mummying x

Respectfully I think you're wrong. You are much more appealing an option as an employee (even part time) than you are as someone out of the workforce. You might not get back to a glittering career, but you are less likely to have to take minimum wage shitty jobs. What's your job now? Is it more than min wage?