To wonder if there comes a point where you just have to give up work?

[Bluewatersummer]

I’m hopefully not there yet. But while I wish I could be very feminist about this the fact is DH earns a lot more than me and he always will, his talents lie where money is.

With one child we have managed through a combination of part time, taking turns to take time off when needed, and some good luck as well - haven’t had a lot of sickness to contend with. However, I’m due my second any day now and I’m wondering about a whole host of stuff.

It’s going to be so difficult when DC1 starts school and when DC2 is in nursery, reliance on wraparound care and rushing from A to B to C. I don’t honestly know if it is just easier for everyone - not just me - if one parent gives up work and just has their ‘job’ the children and house. Which isn’t very feminist but would potentially make a big difference to stress levels! Honestly wondering what others think: I’m not making any big decisions just yet.

Jesus sorry that happened to you!

It can work, too OP. Me and DH made this decision purely on the basis he earned more, and all my wages wouldve been wasted on childcare, when the kids got a bit older I went back to work. It worked really well for us. It had nothing to do with whether I was a feminist or not btw so don't get hung up on that, it was just logistics and the best choice.

Think about what fulfils you (doesn't necessarily have to be paid work) and make sure you include that in your weekly routine. If you become a SAHM make sure that your pension is paid into by DH. And have a really serious chat to ensure that he will value what you do and contribute equally when he's at home. I've seen many women online talk about the contempt their DH holds them in and his entitled view that he doesnt need to parent or do any household tasks after a few years of them staying at home. You also need to think seriously about what would happen if you split up or if he died. You need life insurance anyway but your financial needs may change if you've been a sahp for several years.

Overall my DH probably earns more than me however I've never thought not to work. We both work part time around the kids and it's been an important part of family life in terms of equal shares in parenting and the domestic load , work which is significantly undervalued in our society.

I don't have kids because I wanted a career. If I wanted children, they would be my career!! About time families looked after their own.

Does this apply to men who want kids too or just women?

Gee I wonder 🤔

My dh earns twice what I earn. He hates his job, whereas I’m passionate about mine. I wouldn’t consider giving it up to Sahp unless one of them needed a carer due to disability or illness (physical or mental).
I see so many women saying “I earned less so had to give up work” but unless you earn less than the cost of childcare it’s not that black and white.
I do more child duties than dh but nowhere near 100% despite my relatively less ££ career I’d say I only do around 60-70% to his 30-40%. My trips to clients are prioritised and dh always enables them.

if a mother genuinely cannot afford to work then she has my full sympathy.
if she hates her job or actively wants to sahp then great, go for it.
but if she wants to work and the family can afford it then I just don’t buy the argument that her wants should come last to everybody else in the family’s and dh gets a free pass to work as if he had no childcare responsibilities at all.

Absolutely!! No parent should work, they should all be fully funded by the state. Children need both parents at home. I really think this is a policy that could take off!

To people. No discrimination. Just as it was thus.

Nuts.

So both parents should give up their careers if they want children?

I didn’t know this! I’m SAHM and would love more detail - is there a specific name for this that I can google to get more info and set it up?

Deliberately awkward.

You’re lucky he didn’t take your money. Mine made me and the children homeless. Stopped paying mortgage so family home nearly got repossessed- I can’t get any credit now due the mortgage missed payments. And I had to give him money to clear his debts before the proceeds were split. There’s more - much more. Sometimes yes definitely worth working but if your ex is as bad as mine - he will want half of whatever you have, even though you would spend it on kids and he would spend it on …. Who knows car? Holidays? Gambling? Drugs?

Pension (national insurance credits) would be paid while in receipt of child benefit

Can you work from home part time? That’s what I do, my daughter goes to nursery and the older two go to school. My boss is flexible if I have to collect the children if they are ill. I only have to work in the office two days a month

I see so many women saying “I earned less so had to give up work” but unless you earn less than the cost of childcare it’s not that black and white.
And it’s always the full cost of childcare accounted for, rather than 50%.

And it’s always the full cost of childcare accounted for, rather than 50%.

Well where do you want the other 50% to magically come from? People aren't saying "My wage is too low and also I'm the only one responsible for childcare" they are saying "If I work and we pay for childcare, the net effect is a loss"

Unless the DH's wage is massive they probably need all of it.

But the MN approved view is surely that all money is family money, so how does that work?

Let’s say total family income is £5000. Childcare is £1500, so total income £3500.

Parent A earns £3800, Parent B earns £1200. Without childcare, total income is £3800.

There are obviously a myriad of factors there that should be accounted for - does Parent B want to stop work, will they earn more in the future, and so on - but the family as a whole operate at a loss with Parent B working, even with everything split down the middle. That’s not the case for us: we make a good profit even with nursery fees although that will change with two! I will make a profit though, but not a huge one.

X post @BertieBotts

So I have 3 under 7 - eldest two are at infant and junior school and the baby is at nursery. My husband and I both work full time but as he is the higher earner and I have a more understanding/flexible company I am able to do the default parent stuff. Not in a martyr way it just historically always made sense as I worked closer to home/school/nursery. Now we have three it’s a different ballgame and my husband does do a lot of the morning school runs and we have had a recent, terrible spate of chickenpox and then a sickness bug so he’s had time off to look after children and we have taken it in turns to work. It’s not easy. My brain feels like a scrambled egg most of the time but honestly I hold on to working for dear life - something that uses my brain, makes me feel useful in a way that just making snacks doesn’t and gives me an identity away from being ‘muuuuuuuuuuum’ all day long. I completely understand why so many women give it up though because in principle it’s the easier option but definitely discuss your options with your husband before you give up such a part of yourself x

If you think you would all be happier being at home for a while then go for it. Similar situation and I stepped back for a few years and loved it. No regrets at all, it’s too a huge amount of pressure off us and actually meant we could enjoy our family. Now back at work part time and loving that too, now that it’s the right time for us

I’m saying why is it always calculated as the woman’s income covers childcare, and when it can’t cover childcare or comes at a loss, she quits work. Vs considering it covers 50% of childcare, and if the DH wants to continue working he needs to account for being able to cover 50% too, or take some responsibility for figuring out what to do: are there savings that can cover the loss until age two (when day rates go down), can both parents go to a four-day week using different days so the DC goes to childcare three days, can hours be juggled so daycare hours used are shorter (our nursery is miles cheaper 9-5 than for 8-6), can the family budget be squeezed to give up a football season ticket/outing hobby (cycling)/takeaways/whatever it is, some combination of all of the above.

On here people aren’t always saying the net effect is a loss: they’re saying the net effect is breaking even, or bringing in only a small amount. Yes, sometimes a loss – at which point you have to consider making a change. But the argument shouldn’t always be based on the woman’s income in isolation Vs the childcare cost: it should be “what is the household income, what is the childcare cost, and how can we adjust that to keep both parents working (if that’s what’s wanted) by adjusting both our hours/days/careers”. That’s where the other 50% magically comes from: dads doing some of the thinking and changing.

Well maybe that works for people who aren't already stretched with one salary. But if you are at a stretched point then it does become a simple break even calculation generally.

However I agree that people should consider combining part time etc because this is hardly ever discussed/thought about. But if you're in a situation where the husband earns a lot more than the wife then it usually doesn't make any financial sense. It's different if earnings are fairly similar.

@BertieBotts - it depends on your exact salaries and childcare costs but dropping a day or a half day if you're a higher rate tax payer costs less than you think because you only keep 60% of your earnings, take off two kids in nursery costs for that day and, for salaries in the 80-100k region, it doesn't end up costing much if anything to do it. We do it also to keep our salaries under 100k and so keep tax-free childcare. And to spend time with our children of course..

It's worth playing with the various PAYE calculators online