To wonder if there comes a point where you just have to give up work?

[Bluewatersummer]

I’m hopefully not there yet. But while I wish I could be very feminist about this the fact is DH earns a lot more than me and he always will, his talents lie where money is.

With one child we have managed through a combination of part time, taking turns to take time off when needed, and some good luck as well - haven’t had a lot of sickness to contend with. However, I’m due my second any day now and I’m wondering about a whole host of stuff.

It’s going to be so difficult when DC1 starts school and when DC2 is in nursery, reliance on wraparound care and rushing from A to B to C. I don’t honestly know if it is just easier for everyone - not just me - if one parent gives up work and just has their ‘job’ the children and house. Which isn’t very feminist but would potentially make a big difference to stress levels! Honestly wondering what others think: I’m not making any big decisions just yet.

But I bet he's never asked about or requested flexible working? Asked to reduce travel?

Well no, because of the nature of the work. It would be like a vet requesting not working with animals or a pilot not working with planes!

What I was sort of suggesting is that he could keep a day which is fixed as WFH and he just doesn't do client visits that day.

Sometimes I am sure he says no to one client because he is with another client so it's not impossible, it just takes more organising. He doesn't have to tell the client that it's for childcare reasons if that wouldn't go down well, just whatever he would normally say if he couldn't make a particular meeting.

Then that day could also be the day which he routinely covers if the kids are unwell. It's not 50:50 but I am sure it would help you to know that not every day of the week is your responsibility.

"On a societal level I care because it perpetuates inequality and sexism and also makes it more difficult for women in the work place."

Well I'm afraid you may have to just get over this really because you can't do anything about the fact women will make their own choices. Your expectation that everyone wants the same things as you, individually or in a societal level, is very naive. It's like trying to argue that women who work are making it more difficult for women to SAH. It's a nonsense really. At the end of the day, each to their own.

but surely then the answer is to think about him doing something else for a few years? Have you discussed him getting a different job?

what did you agree when you discussed this pre kids? I presume you did given his heavy travel load.

I know that’s what you’re suggesting @Grumpyfroghats and I’m trying to explain it doesn’t work like that. But in any case, it is all just musing at this stage.

There are all sorts of options. Carry on as we are. Go full time, and pay for increased childcare. Give up work. But some options would be a bit bonkers, such as insisting DH gets a different job with much less pay ‘just because’ or similar.

@stealthbanana we did discuss it but it’s fair to say we underestimated how much time children end up having off nursery! It’s also fair to say that getting a job with the same pay and benefits that doesn’t involve travelling around this country and abroad isn’t going to happen!

But why would it be “just because”? It would be so you can parent equally. I find it bonkers that you think it’s reasonable for you to quit the workforce altogether but bonkers for him to consider alternative jobs!

But has he actually asked or tried?

Sometimes the way things are done doesn't have to be so.

I don't really understand why it is impossible for him to exercise any control over his schedule - do all of his colleagues operate this way? Any women on his team, how do they work?

Yes, exactly.

And just to put my posts into context - I had a job pre kids that was very high earning and involved a lot of travel. I changed post kids because it was putting too much strain on my DH and my kids weren’t seeing enough of me. I now earn less - still a very good wage, but much less than I “could” earn if I took the most full on job available. But the trade off facilitates my family life and my dh’s career. This is a totally normal thing for women to do post kids. But for some reason men never can.

No one’s saying he has no control over his schedule.

Has he actually tried what? Im getting lost here, I must admit. I feel we are talking about two very different things.

It feels that you think DH is somehow shirking his responsibilities as father by not taking time off to be with unwell children or by doing drop offs and pick ups. That’s not the case - he does. But it’s fair to say life can be a bit manic and packed. And what is manageable with one may be even harder with two.

It isn't nonsense at all. SAHM's are usually quick to say that a benefit is to facilitate their husband's careers, this is at the expense of women who don't have SAHM's at home doing everything for them.

I can also do things about it such as speaking out against sexism and inequality, not contributing to it myself and raising my son to see that women can have careers and be good mothers and men are capable of cooking, cleaning and looking after children.

I never said people want the same things as me, I said that it's sexist and promotes inequality which doesn't change just because that's what a woman wants.

if you decide now to give up work for a while then everything you say about his job vs yours will be multiplied - you’ll be earning nothing do his job will be so much more essential, you’ll likely struggle to restart work because when his job is the only one and he’s used to both of you prioritising his career he won’t feel he can do childcare to support your restarting. By the time the children are grown, you’ll be so far behind there will feel like no point starting over and competing with younger workers.
what if he gets ill? Or just burned out?

for dh and I it was also about sharing a common experience of life. We both understand the juggle and parenting and we both talk about our work. I feel we’d drift apart if he lived corporate city life 100% of the time and I lived children and neighbourhood life 100%.

Well if women didn't want to be SAHMs, they wouldn't be would they? That's all you need to know really.

I’m sure he could @stealthbanana , it’s just that where you made a decision that worked for you, I don’t think that same decision would work for us, it really is as simple as that. I think I feel it because I literally don’t have anyone as a ‘back up’ if paid childcare can’t be accessed for whatever reason. If I did things would be very different.

It is probably pregnancy hormones but I feel like the thread has gone from chatty sharing experiences to basically being told I am wrong for even idly wondering about this and that DH needs to get a different job! But the problem is a different job would mean less pay - a fair bit less - and probably less flexibility as he wouldn’t have the ‘goodwill’ aspect he’s currently got.

I don’t know if it’s that simple. I think a few women don’t want to be SAHMs but sort of have to be, for financial or other reasons.

Sorry OP, that previous response was to @SouthLondonMum22

There's that and sexism. Women are often expected to be the default parent no matter how they may feel about it.

Of course, it doesn't help that the message in society is that full time working mothers are bad mothers, not maternal, don't raise their children etc.

Ok, so you said "it doesn't work like that" about the idea of him having a regular WFH day. Has he tried to ask for one, was my question?

Or more generally really: if he does have some control over his schedule, has he tried to organise it so that he can be more predictably available?

I am a bit confused too in that I feel like you keep saying he can't be relied on because he has no control over when he will have to work away. And that it's stressful because of that. But also that he does have control and does pull his weight. I can't really work out what you're trying to say!

I’m really not trying to pile on to you OP. And I know these things are hard. But there are a whole lot of unaddressed assumptions (and constraints) in what your dh can and can’t do - I think it’s interesting that in your musings you won’t even consider trying to solve your problem another way.

the other thing I would say is not to make decisions based on hypotheticals. You don’t KNOW that it’s c going to be unmanageable with 2. Why not try it?

I went part time - that was the compromise. Although it meant no promotion for 10 years whilst part time I was already at a good position and I knew it kept my foot in the door plus a level of independence and of course pension benefits. My youngest starts high school September and I’ve just gone full time as life is easier in terms of pick ups. I get the stress on working days of having to get from A to B and wrap around care - my kids have never been in the same school / nursery for various reasons so I’m always rushing all over the place at drop off and pick up but it’s worth it for the benefits of staying in work and my days off I appreciated so much more and probably was more productive.

Have you looked at things like the coat of a nanny Vs nursery and wraparound?

The advantage of that of you aren't rushing a to b to c. You do your commute and they do the runs.

I know everyone says DH should take up fair share of school runs etc but in the real world that just doesn't work if they have a long commute and/ or travel for work etc. it's never straight forward.

What is wrong with being a "trad" wife.

Analytical review of our individual prospects and wants. I was burnt out and my role required 7.30am to 6.30/7.30pm with 110% commitment. I didn't really want to do it any more. He was earlier in his career and when we met considering giving it up due to lack of financial support before the fees got paid. His career was and is his vocation. My stability allowed him to keep his skin in the game.

DC came along and I was happy to do 110% on the home front and he did 120% on the professional front. We rendered the same level of commitment.

When I went back to work I compromised and worked locally and public sector because of the DC. 9.15-6ish and the au-pair was available for emergencies. Took Prof quals and levered myself back up to six figures.

Had I not gone back to work our lifestyle would not have been impacted; I did so the DC saw that their mother could be an independent, hard working woman outside the home. I went back because I got bored at home and didn't particularly want to lunch, play tennis and carry on running the PTA. Biggest benefit has been my pension except it is barely relevant because DH, and my part in his career, was and is very successful. His earning have outweighed min ten times overall - he couldn't have done that without my support. I don't resent it one little bit. The benefits have been fabulous.

Also I couldn’t rely on my husband as he works away a lot - so great when he’s here but no good when he’s it. I also don’t have grandparents to help so it was all my stress dealing with the mental loads ! I still don’t think giving up work was right for me though although I appreciate for others it is.