To think people in the UK are very lax generally about children being left alone?

[Toxicityofourcity]

Not from the UK. Some of the threads on here baffle me when it comes to leaving children alone. Children as young as 10 and 11 getting themselves home from the school, bus etc and letting themselves into an empty house. Being left for a few hours on their own. Have just read a thread about a 16yr old being left for 4 days... because she has to mind some cats?!? WTF? I just don't understand. This is not something that's done in my country at all. Is it a cultural thing? Do people not worry about house fires, accidents, abductions etc.? I just really don't understand it. But here on MN it seems totally acceptable?

@Toxicityofourcity why do you keep going on about the thread about a 16 year old looking after cats? I cannot understand why you're thinking about it so much and why your thread has to keep referring to previous threads so much

Judgmental and rude?

You need to look in the mirror @Toxicityofourcity

God Almighty!

That is ridiculous. She must have been very distressed. Your ex is an arsehle and the police not much better. I can see how they have to respond to the call (it's their job), and even that they might be obliged to stay to make sure you didn't come home off your tts with drink and drugs, but "in their sight" (so she couldn't even go t o the toilet, make a private phone call, retreat to her bedroom if sh felt intimidated) and to arrest and charge you with a breach of the peace because you (very understandably) wanted them to go - that's appalling!

They should have been going round to your ex's place and warning him not to waste their time.

I just read you're in Ireland - that's weird, because I find here (at least where I am/was) the kids have have the kind of freedom I did when I was a child - playing out, walking themselves to/from school (al least half of 3rd class walk about a kilometre home on their own)

During lockdown, I had to start leaving my kids alone, as they weren't welcome in the supermarket, so it was that or leave them in the car in the carpark.

Now I leave one alone while I take the other to school for an hour (if they're off different days), my friends would think nothing of leaving their primary child in the house while they pop 5 mins down to the shop etc.

I wouldn't do it if they were uncomfortable (or in the dark), they can call me (and the first couple of times we stayed on facetime the whole time), and they know the rules (and are generally obedient) about opening doors and cooking.

none of my friends see anything weird in this.

Yup!
I was working part time after college, no bed time (as long as I kept things reasonable, grades didn't drop and I was not coming home drunk) and was happily camping away at the other side of the country with friends.

I encounteted some of these kids at work as young adults. Mums calling work because the person is sick and can't come. They were all 18-24! Who the fuck calls on behalf of their 20something year old because they feel under the weather🤦

Gosh id have say the opposite, modern day kids are wrapped in cotton wool and it makes them all entitled overgrown babies. I live in a village and it does my nut ive to wait until dc are 10 to walk to school themselves, they could easily do it at 8.

Mine got public transport to school in a town 20-30 minutes away and stayed at home for a couple of hours after school until we got back home from work.
Where is all of this mythical after school child care for 11-16 year olds OP?
Or is it your opinion that women shouldn't work until their youngest is 18?
My arse you are just curious, judgmental and goady more like with your false Irish mammy naivety!

So when did it change then in Ireland ?
my Irish Dad tells me stories from his childhood of being able to roam for miles they would cycle to the nearest seaside town about ten miles away from his home ,this was in the 50 s and as his parents emigrated to England when he was 11 he must have been pretty young
Also you say parents in the UK ,so as Northern Ireland is part of the UK
I assume parents in Northern Ireland are also " reckless" until they step over the border?🤔

Ipay a 16 year old to come look after my cats when i go on holiday!!!

I think your observations are simply incorrect. I have lived and worked abroad and in the UK parents seems either AS strict, or far stricter, than other countries I’ve lived in when it comes to this. Obviously there will be one or two exceptions to the rule but on the whole I’d say you’re simply mistaken.

My brother went to University at 17 and the summer before he started, he and his mate went travelling in New Zealand!

I remember age 12 taking the train to the nearest big city (45 mins) to go shopping all day with my friend.

When I was 10 I was not only walking myself to school, I was also dropping my 5 year old brother in his class.

At 16 I was earning money babysitting other people’s children. We now pay our 16yo neighbour to do the same.

Normal middle class family in Scotland in the 80s.

Ireland? 😂
my exdh and family are from south west Ireland and they thought I was over protective not letting my then 5 year old go to the park on their own 😂

My answers as a child protection professional and mother of 17 & 19 yo :

When is it okay to leave a child for 1 hour? 8 -10

When is it okay to leave a child for 2 hours? 10-12

When is it okay to leave a child for 6 hours? 12-14

When is it okay to leave a child overnight?
16, preferably after GCSEs are finished

When is it okay to leave a child for 4 days? I would only do this once I had ledt them overnight without incident. It would be about the state and safety of the house more than anything else. Probably upper 6th so 17 or 18.

I have family in Ireland and their attitudes towards their children and nurturing independence and self reliance are very different to mine. My 11 year old is used to being alone for awhile actually enjoys it and knows what to do in an emergency. He gets himself to the school bus stop alone, might go out with his mates for a bit after school. All completely and normal things for a child to do independently at this age. Compared to me when I was that age in the late 80s it’s like night and day so we have generally become a little more guarded that in the previous generation. I think some of their approach stems from living quite rurally and so would worry about intruders, emergencies etc whereas we live in a city with very close by neighbours. Either way, there is no right or wrong answer and as parents we make decisions with our children and let them grow at a pace that suits them. You won’t suddenly become well adjusted and independent having been wrapped in cotton wool up to the age of 17.

Good lord @Toxicityofourcity

Anything you don't judge other people for?

Anything anybody does differently to you and where you come from that is OK?

Oddly (to help give the lie to a bit of what you're saying) two of my students recently spent 3 and 6 months in Ireland respectively and came back saying how surprised they were at how independent the children were compared to their own families.

But seriously, maybe get a hobby or a job or something and unclench about stuff? Or therapy because of your concern about other people doing normal and not dangerous things.

Though if you know lots of children whose houses spontaneously burst into flames while the children are inside then maybe start a campaign to give yourself something to do instead of twitching behind the nets.

I am so confused you say it’s a uk thing. And compare it to Ireland.

Then say you never said your way of doing things goes for all Ireland. Yet we’re comparing countries.

If you are now just changing it to your area. Why are you comparing the whole of the UK, to just your area. Some of us live rurally, in cities, near schools far away from schools just like in Ireland.

You compares countries and when that was pointed out to be incorrect you changed. You have implied parents who do have independent kids just can’t be bothered parenting anymore.

You aren’t making an observation. You are making a judgement. Which is really odd given parenting, children and circumstances are all so individual every parent makes different decisions looking at these things. It not really about Ireland or the UK.

Surely parents in Ireland or just your area, are making parental decision based on what’s best for their families and circumstances. Not what next door but 3 will say.

I have family in Ireland, while I have observed they tend to treat their boys like young children for a long time, I can’t say I have noticed huge differences in when we allow our kids to do things. And I certainly wouldn’t make a huge sweeping statement that all Irish people tend to baby their male children because I know some Irish people who do.

DSL and agree with all of those timings.

DD is now 19 and away at university but those were more or less when she was mature enough.

Oh no op I disagree

kids are far too babied in the uk - I walked alone to school from age 7ish ( 40 years ago yes but still did it) That wouldn’t be allowed now
at 16 I had a full time job and was allowed to come and go as I pleased .
it’s considered acceptable that a child in year 7 so age 11/12 would be getting themselves to school Besides there is no childcare post primary - generally it ends after primary school

my two age 13 and 15 get themselves home either by bus/ bike etc home from school and wait for me for 2 hours on a regular basis
kids need to learn independence. As soon as they can otherwise they can’t cope in the adult world.

Well this is ridiculous if police officers can't manage to attend after burglaries, follow up CCTV after a crime has been reported etc because they are overstretched. How is it possibly a crime to leave a child of 15 for a couple of hours? And how can it be a breach of the peace to ask police officers to leave your house in such circumstances. They should be disciplined for over-stepping their authority. Have you complained?

The idea that the Irish have more protective traditions of child care than the rest of the world is pretty laughable. This is the land of the Magdalene Laundries and the "care homes" where mass graves of many hundreds of children have been found. Catholic clergy abuse of children was extremely commonplace and Irish priests took their nasty habits with them all over the world.

Perhaps in response to generally neglectful child-rearing traditions, the Irish are now over-compensating. But the same is happening in many countries and I see no evidence that UK parents are generally "lax" in regard to child care.

Oh OP you’d hate me. My DD was 16 when she first declared she didn’t want to come on holiday with us, she stayed home alone for 2 weeks. Her Nan was close enough by if she needed her but strangely she’s still alive!.

My youngest DS has been begging me to let him walk to and from school alone and the o ly reason I won’t is because it’s nearly 2 miles. But I’m certain when he starts senior school he will be.

Don't come to London then, Op.

Public transport chock-a-block full of unaccompanied school kids.

Thank goodness you have seen the error of the UK's ways 😬

Quite the reverse. Mine were happy to be left at home for an hour from about 8. Probably two from about 10. Very safe area and super neighbours though.

From 9 DS came home from school on the public bus and the au-pair met him at the bus stop. DD took herself to the West End aged 12 rather than stay at home with cleaner. We stopped the au-pair when dd went to secondary school and she was perfectly capable of looking after herself for an hour.

At 17 they went to Reading, at 18 to a ghastly place in Crete - both rites of passage. Six months later ds was in NZ roughing it on a farm. By 16 both were capable of boarding a plane alone to stay with friends' families.

I don't understand the logic about the plane at all!

My dd was far more mature (14) before I'd let her fly domestically alone than when she was left home alone (9) or get the bus alone (11).

As youve quite rightly said you have to be confident they are able to cope with worst case scenario. So house fire = understanding they need to get out immediately then contact me. Burglary the same. And or call 999 obvs.

Missed bus or wrong stop = call me and wait somewhere safe.

Plane crash/diverted to a different airport = a potentially very frightening experience when they would likely not be able to contact me at all

If anything I'm shocked it's so late. I live I another European country and kids are allowed to walk home from school at 8 and many do. I see groups of 7/8 year olds in the park playing by themselves.