To think people in the UK are very lax generally about children being left alone?

[Toxicityofourcity]

Not from the UK. Some of the threads on here baffle me when it comes to leaving children alone. Children as young as 10 and 11 getting themselves home from the school, bus etc and letting themselves into an empty house. Being left for a few hours on their own. Have just read a thread about a 16yr old being left for 4 days... because she has to mind some cats?!? WTF? I just don't understand. This is not something that's done in my country at all. Is it a cultural thing? Do people not worry about house fires, accidents, abductions etc.? I just really don't understand it. But here on MN it seems totally acceptable?

I’m Irish but live in one of the major UK cities, my brother & his family in a fairly big town down the country in Ireland. My son is 11 & my nephew (Ireland) is 6 weeks older than him.

Since my son went into YR 6 we’ve been giving him more independence, so taking the bus to school & walking home with his friends. In prep for high school. Mostly my DH is wfh but 1 day a week is away so son comes home to an empty house. He feeds the cat, grabs a snack & goes on his games.

My sis-in-law, I know, is horrified, she wouldn’t dream of leaving nephew home alone like that.

I think it's the opposite. I know people in continental Europe let their nursery aged children walk home on their own. Countries like Switzerland, Germany, scandi Countries. My friend from 1 of these countries is planning to let her 8 year old son to take the bus to school & back on his own next school year. I think we are actually a lot less relaxed in England regarding to leaving our children on their own in England.

My sisters both live abroad in a country where it’s normal for 8-9 year olds to walk to school on own, and be home alone. And for 13 year olds to get paid for babysitting! It’s all relative. My kids have all got bus to school in year 7 and walked to and from primary school (very local) in year 5.

I'm from Ireland and have definitely been left alone for a week at 16 because my parents went on holiday and I had a summer job. My eldest gets 2 buses to and from school, she's allowed to be at home on her own etc as do loads of others I know. It's not an Irish thing to not let your kids be independent

@Toxicityofourcity I am thinking you are from the US & in that case your country is much, much, much bigger than the UK meaning the distance kids have to travel to get to & from places of education or even to local shops is much greater; unless you live next to the school, in a small town or next to a shopping Mall.

My LG has walked herself to school since she was 11 & walks home two afternoons a week but her school is literally 5minutes up the road & she meets up with a couple of friends on the way so their is usually 3/6 of them walking together.
We started this so she could learn to be more independent & because when she goes to secondary school in September that journey is a 20minute walk or a 5 minute bus journey.

During covid lockdowns she was 8yrs old & we used that time to work on staying home, independence training.
I didn’t want her out unnecessarily so left her home, during school time, when I went shopping but I gave her an old phone so that she could call me when I was out & we FaceTimed while I was out too.
Often she was doing online lessons when I needed to go to the shops so it made sense to leave her at home. Any younger than 8yrs old & school work would have taken a back seat & she would have had to come shopping with me as I didn’t feel she was old enough to be home alone at 7 so the maturity & trustworthiness of the child is a factor in how independent they can be allowed to be.

In essence the what age is ok comes down to a number of factors…

1. the maturity of the child
2. the place you live &
3. the distance they would have to travel alone to get to their place of education.

Nope, apparently she's from Ireland

kids age 11 (first year of high school) in the Uk generally make their own way to school on the bus. a responsible parent will make sure they have a mobile phone with parental controls and that usually has the option to track the child and get a notification when they arrive at school.... oir bus stops are usually pretty close to our houses and take them to right outside their schools. pretty much have to just stand at a bus stop show their weekly ticket or scan it and just sit there until they get to school..... where i live the bus is MUCH SAFER than organising a taxi for them. i always worried about my kids and still do but it is common place to let them go on the bus to school from year 7.... believe me no kid in high school wants their mummy pucking them up from school... as for a 16 year old looking after a couple of cats for a few days.... at 16 i looked after my 2 younger brothers for a weekend and they were a handfull. at 11 i was on and off buses and trains going to stay with my dad or my nan in a rural village for a week and then getting home the same way. i ironed my own school uniform and at 14 i cooked a full roast dinner for my family

At 16 most Brits go to the pub, then go to a nightclub, walk home 5 miles alone. Choose between a kebab or fried chicken. Collapse in the street, wake up at 4am. We have no time for cats! Actually that was in the 90s. Nowadays, they sit in online which is much safer in my opinion.

OP you’re really lucky that you live so close to public transport that goes directly to school.

I’m in London and if we don’t start teaching our kids from first year secondary how to navigate public transport independently, you really are setting them up to fail. You can’t get anywhere in a London without having confidence using the TFL network. It also broadens their horizons when it comes to them later looking for part time jobs etc.

As it happens, I did over protect my very shy daughter when she first entered secondary school - taking her, picking her up (holding my Teams meetings from the car became the norm) but she asked if she could start doing it herself. As I’m originally a northerner it terrified me that my child was on the ‘mean streets of London’ unprotected but her confidence, independence and pragmatism have dramatically improved as a result.

Its not bad parenting to give your children the tools they need to navigate the world

I think it’s considerably less safe in terms of people.

When I went out as a teen there were people around. We all knew in the pub or club who creepy Dave was and that you had to look out if Mary went off on one and that you never took a lift home from pervy Steve.

Online teens are interacting with people who can pretend to be anything and there’s no one there to keep an eye on them. You could see that pervy Steve was 50, not 25 as the guy online is claiming. Creepy Dave wouldn’t get away with pretending he could help you with something because you all knew him.

They might be at less risk from being hit by cars at 4am, but overall much riskier imo

18 year olds live by themselves at university. If you can’t leave them for 4 nights 2 years before that how are they going to be ready? It’s about building up independence little by little. Non of what you have mentioned is age inappropriate in my opinion and probably way behind other countries.

Well sort of, most of them are in halls of residence which is something of a halfway house really. With only a room to be responsible for, cleaning is often included as are utilities. Sometimes food is also included and is often available. So nor living alone really. There is no way I'd leave my 16 year old for four nights.

18 year olds live by themselves at university. If you can’t leave them for 4 nights 2 years before that how are they going to be ready?

2 years is quite a big difference, especially in legal implications. And it's not about being "ready". A 16yo would be ready to stay by themselves. But if they use this oppurtunity to party, drink, have sex - it would be pretty much on you if things go pear shaped, i.e. your house gets trashed.

At 15 and 16 myself and my sister were left for 9 days. We were absolutely fine. Just went to school and carried on as usual tbh. We helped alot around the house anyway so it was a bit of freedom and my parents went on lovely well deserved holiday.

Hi OP, I think it’s fine to leave kids of 12 upwards alone for a few hours if needed but I think it’s more about the ‘maturity’ of the kids whether it’s appropriate in each case. Some 12 year olds can be very immature for their age, sone 11 year olds very mature. I personally would not leave kids under 16 alone overnight and I’d hesitate to leave an under 18 year old alone for more than 1 night unless they were very independent already, but that’s driven by my view about my kids. It’s very normal here that kids travel to secondary school independently unless there are other concerns (not NT or very long journey etc). In my experience most people escort their kids to primary school up to year 5. Personally, I worry about abduction, kids hurting themselves in the house whilst alone etc which is why I’ve taught them what to look out for and I track my kids via their phones. I never left either of my kids alone in the house under 12 and they did not travel to school on their own until secondary school, but I think that most kids need and want a bit of independence at 12.

I was born in Ireland but we left & moved to England just before I was 7.
We used to walk home from school, but again we lived less than 5 mins from school, & walked home with friends. You could literally see the school from the middle of my home road & I could see my neighbours homes from school.
I used to go into town with my friends at 6yrs old because it was safe to do so. My now 11yr old hasn't had that freedom because we don’t live in the same sort of world anymore.
We never locked our doors when I lived in Ireland but did in England.
I’m 44 now so this was a few years ago but the world was a very different place back then.

@Toxicityofourcity Just going through my brain bank & I actually moved about 1.5hrs away from home, Teesside to Cumbria, in the September before i went 17.
I lived onsite at college for the 1st year but the next year & the 3yrs after that I lived in a shared house.
I also had 4 part time jobs & a great social life. I made bad decisions but I learned from them & no-one got hurt.
I was the eldest of 5 in a single parent household so I knew how to run a home & take care of myself & others.
From what I have seen & experienced recently many 17, 18 & 19yr olds now struggle to do what I did as they aren’t taught more independence when they are at home.

@YetMoreNewBeginnings Good point about online contact.

DS would spend every minute online if he could. That's why after an hour or two gaming, we make him turn it off and go out to play.

I don't understand your issue with what I've said. I did miss off in education until 18 but I gathered that was implied with what I wrote. School, college, uni it's all education. It is a big part of the reason why we grew more mature as we had to be more mature. If the norm is to be responsible enough to leave school, get a job and be possibly looking to be in your own home at 16 it does make you more mature whether you stay in education as we did or whether you don't. You still don't have to be molly coddled at 12 and 13yrs old and can come home on the school bus, be trusted to let yourself in and wait til your parents come home. This was the whole purpose of the post not the fact we don't go to school as school until 18

I'm getting on a bit, but I was getting buses to town and back to meet friends aged 11. Cycling up to the shops (half a mile away) from around 7 years. Looked after my baby sister when my parents went out at night aged 11. Looked after her and baby brother a lot while parents worked from age 15. Would have been perfectly capable of keeping house for a few days aged 16. Wouldn't have let my kids do it (although they did have to walk to school and back from year 7) but yeah it happens

At 16 our kids are allowed to get married (with parental consent), can legally become parents and live independently. They ought to be able to look after themselves and a cat. I appreciate that things are very different now from when I was a child, but at 14/15 I was looking after my 4 y/o brother while my mum worked evenings and my dad was in hospital for about 9 months. At 16 I worked full time. I'd have been appalled if my parents thought I needed an adult to 'look after' me when they went away for a week's holiday. Mind you, I did have various aunts, uncles and older cousins all living nearby.

I think there's a big divide as to what would be safe in the city as opposed to a little village.

Also each individual child is different.
Having said that we're more protective than others & some people seem very lax.

Countries? Curious
The only country that seems apart in respects of ages where kids are generally thought of as responsible (as far as I know) are parts of the US.

In Norway they play outside in play parks alone from about 4 and go to and from school alone when they start aged 6

i think we are far more helicopter parenting here than in Europe.

so I disagree with you.

Once I could drive aged 17 my parents used to go away for three weeks in December. I used to get myself to the airport and flight and do the same back home. At 16 easily could have stayed home to look after some cats

I was always home alone in the holidays from aged 12. I used to cycle into town and meet my parents for lunch and then cycle home

Coming from Europe, I’d say the UK is unreasonably protective of children. I was left home alone for a few hours from a fairly young age, I was also taught how to cook my own breakfast and lunch at primary school. I walked to school alone since the age of 7, let myself into an empty flat while my parents were at work. We also played outside unsupervised all the time. And at the age of 16 it was a real treat to be home alone for a few days. Why you think it’s unreasonable is totally beyond me.
I can vouch that I grew up to be very resourceful and independent and not once attempted to throw myself out of the 6th floor window or set a house on fire.