To tell those who lecture me on vaping to Fuck Off

[Dogsitterwoes]

AIBU. No, let them lecture you
YANBU - Yes, be rude to them

I'm in my 50s and was a long term smoker. I switched to vaping in January. I am considerate and only vape outdoors and move away from other people or into a smoking area. People sometimes
comment, there's a brief convo around my giving up smoking, and 9 out of 10 respond nicely in a 'well done you' kind of way.

The 1 out of 10 though start lecturing me on the evils of vaping. These can be complete strangers, or acquaintances. They go on and on.
Usual themes:

1. Just as bad for you or worse for you than smoking.
2. Children are vaping.
3. Environmental impact of disposables.

I respond politely. I acknowledge there is a concern around all of this, and
1 - I know they aren't exactly good for me but I think they are not as bad as cigarettes, and it's my intension to also stop vaping this year
2 - I agree the manufacturer's should stop targeting non-smokers with the sweet flavours
3 - I agree, I use a rechargeable, but there's probably a lot more all of us could be doing for the environment.

But they do not let it drop. I've literally been lectured at on and on.

YANBU to stop being polite after my initial response and tell them that if I stopped vaping today, I'd be back on the fags tomorrow so mind their own fucking business?

I read that Yankee ones were terrible.

This is a sensible article about candles:

https://www.healthline.com/health/are-candles-bad-for-you

Takeaway
Burning a candle releases chemicals that can be potentially dangerous to human health. However, there isn’t any definitive research showing that exposure to candle smoke increases your risk of developing any health condition.

Wouldn't it be great if articles about vaping were written in such a measured tone?

One thing the article misses is the potential health impact of inhaling vapourised lipids (e.g. oils, fats, waxes). I mentioned lipoid pneumonia above - here's a case study from 2016 where a woman in Japan appears to have contracted the disease from inhaling vapourised paraffin wax from candles:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5065644/

Age 66, 'She had been living in a shrine ever since she was born', surrounded by candles. She inhaled a LOT of wax. The good news is that her condition spontaneously resolved. The bad news is that the woman was not helped to leave this cult that had kept her living in a shrine for her entire life. Instead, the doctors advised her to wear a mask.

I don't know if any research has been carried out regarding the relative lipoid pneumonia risks of paraffin vs. soya vs. beeswax. Probably not because this is a very rare lung condition and we've been burning candles for 100s of years so we know this isn't a big risk.

Lipoid pneumonia was only interesting when the German Cancer Research Center in 2013 tried to connect it to vaping. Despite this claim being very rapidly debunked, the myth persisted that 'vaping fills your lungs with fat'. I still hear it occasionally from people who should know better. I think it only fell out of favour when Popcorn Lung made an appearance.

Lipoid Pneumonia - your lungs fill with fat!!!
Popcorn Lung - your lungs turn to popcorn!!!

Neither are that dissimilar from:
'Every cigarette you smoke rots you from the inside'

It doesn't matter that none of these are true, the important thing is to provoke a visceral reaction of disgust and horror.

Anyway, back to candles, I don't think any of them are particularly dangerous and neither is vaping.

Of course vaping is dangerous - why are you trivialising it???!!

@Mybusyday no, you have decided it's dangerous. That doesn't make it fact.
Nobody is saying vaping is 100% safe but it's fuckton better than smoking.

Yes, yes, we know YoU hAvE aStHmA. If it's so had a wiff of vapour hospitalises you what about exhaust fumes? They are inescapable, killing people and the planet and full of all sorts of particulates but vaping is the problem. you're here screaming about dubious research and killer candles claiming to be a clinician and rational person 🙄

It is fact. And yes I do have asthma - do you have any idea what it is like to be able not to breathe? To think whilst on a ventilator that you might die and never see your kids again? Don’t trivialise my asthma like you do with vaping. I hope you never have to struggle to breathe because believe my it is bloody awful! Nope exhaust fumes don’t trigger my asthma personally and I have never ‘screamed’ about killer candles. You are in the wrong and you know it which is why you are belittling me at every chance

Oh yeah, sorry, vaping makes your head fall off doesn't it? 🙃

Are you for real?? Have you even heard yourself????!!!

Are you for real?? Have you even heard yourself????!!!

Clearly sarcasm is lost on you 🙄🙄🙄

Yes, generally it is.

Nevertheless, everyone can see how you have flooded this thread with your pointless nonsensical posts over pages and pages.

When you once again say that 'vaping is dangerous' while once again providing zero credible evidence, then I once again assume you are talking shit. Sorry, I don't know what else to tell you.

Yes I thought as much.
Pointless posts according to you! - Mumsnet is a discussions forum and I am clearly allowed my opinion (despite what you think!) I do not need to provide evidence of any description (even though I have!) - this is not a law suit (again, despite what you think!) The evidence will come your way soon enough don’t worry.
You can assume all you like - I really don’t give a toss wether you think I am ‘talking shit’ or not

Did the evidence ever come to light?

I've not seen/heard anything 🤔

Well, what a wild ride this thread was!

I RTFT up until about p14, then skipped on to see the 'evidence' and, completely unsurprisingly, it has not appeared.

I do love a good moon howler, though, so it wasn't time wasted. 😀

Funny, that! 🙃

It’s terrible how the government allows so many adverts on vapes, knowing they target children. We probably know even less about vapes than we do cigarettes.

Not sure why random strangers feel the need to lecture you on vaping unless it’s causing them an inconvenience. If i see someone smoking or vamping, I conclude they know they’re killing themselves but don’t care enough to stop. It’s not my business. They’re adults and making an active choice.

I would struggle to socialise with anyone who smoked or vaped because they (cig/vapes) both stink.

Hello old thread 😀

There's a current government consultation on vaping that closes on 6 December.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/creating-a-smokefree-generation-and-tackling-youth-vaping

The two main questions regarding vaping are whether to ban disposables and whether to ban flavours.

My own view is:

Disposables should be banned because they are an environmental disaster. The Li-ion batteries in disposables are completely rechargeable and lithium mining is terrible. The harm from vape batteries pales into insignificance compared with the harm from car batteries but still, we should reuse or recycle lithium vape batteries wherever we can. Also they're dangerous in landfill because they combust under pressure.

Disposable batteries of any type should no longer be a thing in any situation, Everything should be rechargeable.

Public Health England was always keen to maximise the positives of vaping while mitigating against the negatives. With this in mind I would say that there is a need for a straightforward easy vape that costs less than a packet of fags and is as easily available, It doesn't need to be disposable and it doesn't need to be in big displays on the front counter of newsagents. Manufacturers in this market are well able to produce products that meet this demand.

The government has got this badly wrong on flavours. For as long as vaping has existed (since the mid 00's I think), vapers have gravitated towards fruit flavours, or puddings, or sweets, because it dissociates vaping from smoking. Smokers and ex-smokers have relied on vape flavours to take them as far away from smoking as possible. It's not actually possible to produce a vape flavour that tastes like smoking anyway because that would involve burning things.

There was no problem with flavours in the UK until disposable vapes took off a couple of years ago. Flavours are not the problem and banning them will put smokers off from switching. Such a ban may also cause ex-smokers to relapse.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what the government choose to ban or not. Sales to under 18s are already banned. How's that working out? Does anyone on MN believe that under 18s are unable to purchase alcohol or actual fags?

Ban disposables on environmental grounds but fund trading standards properly so they can uphold the laws we already have. And leave flavours alone.

I haven't seen any adverts for vapes outside of in-store advertising in newsagents for years now, can you explain what you have seen?

We don't know everything about vaping but we really do know quite a lot now. Here are 1468 pages of what we know:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nicotine-vaping-in-england-2022-evidence-update

Have you read it? If not, the TL;DR is that vaping is still estimated to be at least 95% safer than smoking, and that is still an important message for any smoker who is thinking of switching.

If I see someone vaping then I know that they have opted out of killing themselves and that they do care about their own health and the health of those around them. And so I give them a big smile and a thumbs-up.

Have a listen to this from the BBC. It will give some weight to your arguments. We

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001qtqk?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

There are adverts of vapes on bus stops, buses, posters at various places.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/wellness-and-prevention/5-truths-you-need-to-know-about-vaping

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/can-vaping-damage-your-lungs-what-we-do-and-dont-know-2019090417734

I guess that’s why it’s great to have different opinions. i can never see anyone who chooses to deliberately harm their lungs as caring about their health but there’d be something seriously amiss for me to actually give a thumbs up for them actively harming themselves.

@HikingforScenery regarding your links - please could you do us the courtesy of looking through them and highlighting what claims you think they provide evidence for, which have not already been addressed at length on this thread? I don't mean to be rude but we are 35 pages in!

At a quick glance, a fair few of the points in your linked articles are addressed just in the above BBC podcast.

The nicotine addiction is still being satisfied.

What’s your point?

Sooooo much evidence coming out now to prove that vaping is indeed very dangerous to health - told you so!

Gonna link it?