To tell those who lecture me on vaping to Fuck Off

[Dogsitterwoes]

AIBU. No, let them lecture you
YANBU - Yes, be rude to them

I'm in my 50s and was a long term smoker. I switched to vaping in January. I am considerate and only vape outdoors and move away from other people or into a smoking area. People sometimes
comment, there's a brief convo around my giving up smoking, and 9 out of 10 respond nicely in a 'well done you' kind of way.

The 1 out of 10 though start lecturing me on the evils of vaping. These can be complete strangers, or acquaintances. They go on and on.
Usual themes:

1. Just as bad for you or worse for you than smoking.
2. Children are vaping.
3. Environmental impact of disposables.

I respond politely. I acknowledge there is a concern around all of this, and
1 - I know they aren't exactly good for me but I think they are not as bad as cigarettes, and it's my intension to also stop vaping this year
2 - I agree the manufacturer's should stop targeting non-smokers with the sweet flavours
3 - I agree, I use a rechargeable, but there's probably a lot more all of us could be doing for the environment.

But they do not let it drop. I've literally been lectured at on and on.

YANBU to stop being polite after my initial response and tell them that if I stopped vaping today, I'd be back on the fags tomorrow so mind their own fucking business?

RTFT

Vaping is better for you than smoking

Both so bad for your health and other peoples health

Real quick google search shows that vaping is safer than smoking

It does feel like we are going around in circles here, doesn’t it?

I think we are falling in to the age old internet debate trap here.

Some people join a debate because they want to put their point across, listen to other points (both of which are formed on evidence and using reasonable logic) and learn something new, and grow as they learn.

Some people join a debate to ‘win’ at all costs, ignore any counter arguments and just shout the other side down. Ignore evidence, ignore data, and just keep going around and around in circles saying the same things over and over again - no matter how many times those points are disproven.

it’s the difference between and eristic and a dialectic debate.

The BBC just did a report a few days ago where a respiratory professor validated a mums belief her daughters death from a double lung collapse and heart failure was caused by vaping. She never smoked.
Popcorn lung has killed some teenagers in the USA.
We do not know if it actually is better than smoking because we do not know what inhaling these chemicals does. 70 years ago doctors thought smoking was good for you.
So it probably is better than smoking but we need about 50 more years to conclude that vaping is safe.

Yeah this is the thing though isn’t it - in the 50’s and 60’s smoking was glamourised and it was only years later that the effects started to be realised - the same will happen with vaping and we are already starting to see the ill effects. It really is quite worrying!

The BBC just did a report a few days ago where a respiratory professor validated a mums belief her daughters death from a double lung collapse and heart failure was caused by vaping. She never smoked

I will watch this - I didn’t realise they had done a report - however, as mentioned previously on this thread, nothing is 100% safe and is something is abused, or someone is allergic to the ingredients in vaping then the results can be catastrophic. Thankfully, this is a very rare occurrence and I feel awful for the poor mother in that situation. But let’s not forget how many people use vaping as a smoking cessation tool and how many lives it is likely to save.

Popcorn lung has killed some teenagers in the USA

This has been spoken about at length on this thread already. This was caused by using illegal and unregulated vaping products.

We do not know if it actually is better than smoking because we do not know what inhaling these chemicals does. 70 years ago doctors thought smoking was good for you.
So it probably is better than smoking but we need about 50 more years to conclude that vaping is safe

You are correct in that we cannot categorically 100% state that vaping is better than smoking and that NO evidence will ever come to light to suggest that it’s dangerous and you are correct that smoking was once prescribed by doctors before we knew how dangerous it was. What we can say, however, is that there is NO EVIDENCE TO SUGGEST that it is as dangerous (or more dangerous) than smoking. Which is as close as you can get, in scientific terms, to saying it is safer. Does that make sense?
This is the stance that most pro vapers have taken on this thread. Using CURRENT data and CURRENT science. But none of us can see in to the future and we absolutely cannot say that vaping is dangerous, that vaping kills, that second hand vaping is dangerous because there is NO evidence to suggest this.

You are stating your opinion as fact.

You are saying that vaping absolutely WILL prove to be as dangerous as smoking but you can’t KNOW that for definite. You are starting with an emotional stance on something and then working backwards. You’ve decided you don’t like vaping. That’s cool. Nobody says you have to like it - you are completely entitled to hold a negative opinion on vaping.

However, what you shouldn’t do is start making categorical statements based on no evidence whatsoever and telling other people that you think they are disgusting because they happen to find vaping enjoyable and because it has helped them to quit smoking. That’s not fair.

The majority of pro vapers on this thread seem to be constructing their arguments based on current data and current research. Basically, they all seem like a scientific bunch.

I honestly think that if a load of data was published suddenly that showed that, actually, vaping is very dangerous, that it has a mortality rate equivalent to that of smoking and is and will continue to cause a massive number of hospitalisations, that all of us pro-vapers would change our stance. Because it will be backed up by actual science.

I don’t think that we will see this data, personally. The reason being that vaping has been around for quite a while now and it has been taken up by millions of people in the UK and, if it was that dangerous, we would be seeing an epidemic of hospitalisations and deaths already. But the data doesn’t show this.

We won’t change our stance based on someone just saying the same things over and over again.

I had never come across the word 'eristic' before. It's perfect!

It's a level below what we normally get in these debates which is Brandolini's Law (AKA the 'bullshit asymmetry principle'), which is similar to 'Gish galloping'.

'Eristic debate' is much more like 'pigeon chess'. There's not even an attempt to put forward any reasonable arguments, just complete disruptive nonsense.

I don't like the word 'idiot' and would never call anyone that. I also think that people who do this are not stupid and know exactly what they are doing. I just can't work out why they do it.

There most definitely is evidence and it is really coming to light now. Vaping absolutely is dangerous and vaping does kill

I will ask you one more time.

Where is the evidence, please?

My opinion IS fact - more evidence coming in daily, but of course you will choose to ignore it. It most definitely is disgusting when other people are forced to breathe in disgusting vape

Plenty of evidence - people have even posted on here evidence but you just choose to shoot then down saying oh it’s just a one off….

I love a post that forces me to google the statements contained within because they are too intellectual for my brain

It is a shame though. If you enter a debate from a dialectic standpoint, you actually cannot lose. You either learn something, change your viewpoint and grow and learn or, your retain the view you already have, more secure in that belief having had it tested.
I like to learn. I certainly don’t hold the same beliefs and opinions that I did 10, or even 5 years ago. That’s because I don’t mind admitting if I was wrong. And that’s where most people struggle.

Where is the evidence?

For me it is an Epipen job - it is now being shown it is far more addictive that smoking - 90% of school children vape.

the some if vape causes me to need to Epipen - but please feel free to do it next to me whilst I’m sitting outside minding my own business - my right to breathe cleanish air is superceeded by anyone else’s right to vape.

Believe me that data is coming. I highly disagree that the pro-vapers are scientific 🤣and I very much doubt that pro-vapers will change their stance when this evidence comes out

Show me actual evidence - cold hard facts, data that disproves the following statement:

”vaping is 95% safer than smoking”

Where is the data?

This must be awful for you and I totally empathise - you have every right to breathe clean fresh air and people who pollute the air vu vaping are totally selfish

If you can show me that data now, I will 100% change my stance immediately.

Yeah right! 🤣🤣🤣

Try me. Show me the data.

We have shown you the data on which we have based our opinion. I’m asking you to do the same.