To not invite friend because of SEN child

[GameOverBoys]

I know I’m going to get roasted here so I will try to give all the information.
Myself and a few friends have been discussing getting a villa for a holiday next summer. There are 5 families all with children aged 6 to 13. We all went to uni together with another friend who has two boys. Her eldest (10 years old) is on the pathway and I feel fairly confident that he is neuro-diverse. Maybe autism or ADHD but has traits of both. So far, we haven’t invited her but now we are looking for villas we need to make a decision if we are going to or not. She is a lovely, sweet woman and we would have no question if it wasn’t for the impact on the group that her eldest has. He is not safe to be left unsupervised with the other kids. In the past there has been constant issues ranging from rough play, making threats and impulsive unsafe actions to punching and throwing things at the others.
He’s very bright, articulate and thoughtful boy and thrives on adult interaction. Away from other kids, I enjoy spending time with him a lot.
During play dates and get togethers we tend to take it in turns to supervise the kids and he is generally much better behaved when watched and any major danger can be stopped. It’s also easy to spot triggers like competitive games. He is also better when there are fewer kids. If we go to a villa (with a swimming pool) supervising him will be impossible and we want to have a break and just let the kids have a bit of freedom. The other children are all old enough and sensible enough to listen to instructions, such as you can’t go to the pool area.
His mother does her best but when she supervises him his behaviour is much worse for her. Her youngest is well behaved so I don’t feel it’s particularly bad parenting, just a stressed out single parent with few resources left to deal with a very hard to parent child. She also has a physical disability which can sometimes stop her being able to intervene. If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent.
I don’t think she realises how bad it is because this has always been her situation, but it’s constant. The group get on so well when he’s not there. There is no need to get involved, other than the occasional requests for food etc and it’s really relaxing. When he is there it is drama the entire time. I think he just doesn’t have the social skills to mix in a big group and he get’s overstimulated. However, I know my friend would be devastated if she thought they were being excluded.

YABU - You are being unreasonable to exclude someone because of SEN

YANBU - You are not being unreasonable to want a relaxing holiday and only invite who you want to

If a child is unsafe to have around my children, I would never sacrifice their safety for the sake of "being inclusive".

@hamsterchump I don’t see any identification of who has children with SEN and who doesn’t apart from a couple of posters?
some of these kids are little, not that unusual to slip and fall from a climbing frame. Hardly unusual for a child to shove another. OP says this child didn’t actually push the other child off. This is why your young child shouldn’t be on a climbing frame that’s too big for them and should be supervised by an adult? Some kids are ‘truly ‘violent’ but that means it’s over and above the rough play that you can expect from children which doesn’t seem to be the case.

Personally I suggested an external 1:1 babysitter, wondering how much that would cost since it would be divided between quite a few families. We have no clue of the budget I think.

Otherwise, I’ve also said I work with children in need (children in care precisely, quite a few with additional needs) and definitely feel like I spend my time saying ‘no’ to activities for safeguarding reasons, but I know it’s the right thing to do - have said this situation would not be something I’d be comfortable to agree to for ‘my kids’ (of course the safeguarding is for the other children, but my duty is mine, and they would also have to live with the consequences growing up if anything happened ; in other words, it’s in everyone’s best interests).

But it’s work, not friendships, hence my suggestion of a 1:1 nanny if affordable for the group. Maybe the mum will pull out, not really enough information.

I am this mother. My son has severe additional needs. It's shown me who my real friends are.

Please realise that you have no idea whatsoever of her life. You know the tiny bit she shows you. You smugly say what parenting strategies you would use thinking you know better. You don't. Parenting a child with additional needs is not the same on any level as parenting a NT child.

If your group are true friends who love her and support her you would invite her and between the 10 adults take one day each to supervise her son. One day out of 365. And then be entirely grateful that this isn't your life 365 days a year 24 hours a day.

Let her have a break and recharge. If you aren't true friends and one day out of your holiday is too much then it is what it is and just make the break now. It will be easier for her in the long run.

No one I think would. It’s more about if there’s 10 reliable adults for a week then à rota is not the most dreadful thing, or if a nanny/babysitter 1:1 would be a possibility.

Its possible the mum would just pull out anyway, it just I think sounds nicer at least to say, look, we’ve thought about this plan A, this plan B, and we’re sorry but we can’t make it work iyswim ?

YABU to not ask her at all. The desision should be up to her if she goes. Could she take someone with her to help her out? A relative?

All the " professional victims/offended" on here getting their knickers in a twist 🙄! OP you don't owe your friend any child care and i can completely understand why people wouldn't want to spend their one holiday a year on high alert for the behaviour of someone else's child! I wouldn't want to do it and as i stated on a pp i have a dc with ASD and ADHD among other disorders! I stand by my comment that we don't often realise how badly behaved or difficult to deal with because we do it day in day out! But all the dm on here who make everything about their dc and their SEN obviously disagree!

If it’s 3 weeks abroad, with limited finances, much harder.
Just trying to suggest in case really

@Godlovesall26 but why should the 10 adults sacrifice their hard earned holiday looking after someone else's dc who is obviously much harder work than a NT dc?

Exactly this I have two on the spectrum you really do find out who your friends are.

How was the situation dealt with by your friend when the climbing frame incident happened?

Whilst not a holiday but I avoid days out and inviting my sibling round with their child who has ADHD. He is also aggressive and has hit and pushed and looses his temper often. My issue is the parent doesn't deal with it "because he has ADHD and can't help it".

For me it's the parent that's more of an issue.

This post presents a pretty sorry state of affairs for our so called inclusive society.
I have a friend whom this exact scenario happened to. She was terribly upset and the friendships have not survived. She has never forgotten it, sadly.
I think you have to either offer, and have an agreement that other parents will support with supervision - and what a great gesture that would be - or just do something else.
By all going without inviting them you are going to really hurt your friend, at a time when she could probably do with your support. I think you would look back on it in years to come and feel you made the wrong choice. It is not sending a particularly good message to your own children about inclusion either.

I am a parent of a child that sounds similar to the child you’ve described, although they are non-verbal which adds extra challenges. I have a husband and a better support network than your friend though.

I don’t think you’ve come across as ableist or any of the other shite that’s been spouted by other posters. You are entitled to a nice holiday.

I would be upset to find out all of this had been planned by my friends behind my back. As in “oh yeah Littleme2023 we’ve booked this holiday, all of us are going bye”.

But I wouldn’t go on a holiday like this. It’s not suitable for my child, I’m aware of that and I’m aware that it would make everyone else’s holiday much less enjoyable with my child being there. It’s just facts. Their behaviour is challenging and we spend the whole time we are with him preempting any triggers, protecting our other children and ourselves from their outburst and making sure they are safe and happy. It’s exhausting.

A day to the farm/zoo/birthday party/park even the local shop is like a military operation. We miss out on quite a few things because we know my child a) will not cope and b) if they could perhaps manage, it’s a risk and there’s a chance everyone’s day could be ruined. It’s just one of those things.

I think a discussion with your friend beforehand would be fair. That you are all thinking of this holiday but have some concerns because it’s an expensive trip and the vibe you are after is a relaxed, let the kids run free vibe.

You may find she straight away says it’s not suitable for them or they can’t afford it. I don’t know many single parents that can afford a villa holiday. If she says she’s up for it then separate accommodation or overlapping dates may need to be looked into.

I hope you find a solution for everyone.

I look after both my DC on holiday I have two other family members to help out as well. I still enjoy my holiday with them as do my relatives though it is stressful. We have this 24/7.

That could add hundreds to the holiday for the other families so while it’s a nice idea, it’d be an absolute no from me.

To be honest I’d be expecting that one not to work out unless really short supervision times, it falls more in line with the ‘we thought about this solution’ and explaining why it wouldn’t (not the way you said it, although I agree it depends, as they seem to want to help).
The only one ime I would think viable would be a babysitter.
Again though, no clue about anyone’s finances

Because that's what friends do? Help out.... support....

But it could potentially cease to be a holiday for everyone else. And you seem to be assuming that everyone else’s lives are a stress-free breeze compared to yours... Life isn’t like that. Everyone has problems. Not just parents of ND children.

Sometimes everyone needs a break. And spending precious AL supervising the challenging behaviour of a friend’s ND son to make sure their own children aren’t injured is not what some people want to do…

I’m sorry if that sounds blunt and harsh. It’s not intended that way. Some posters however cannot see beyond their own lives.

Exactly this. It’s is very selfish to expect that.

Quote failed. This was in response to @Littleme2023.

Yes I did say I didn’t know about the finances aspect which could be huge

Yeah it's just because they're sooooo nasty and not at all because they don't want another one of their children injured like the last time or worse. Grow up. Hurt feelings don't trump a high and proven risk of injury I'm afraid.

The entitlement of some posters here is mind-boggling. Why on earth should OP and her friends fund a 1:1 nanny for someone else's child? Or babysit another person's kid on their holiday? Or never have a group holiday because it's unsuitable for her child? Batshit.

You could just talk to her and tell her you really want her to come, but because of his behavior you are concerned about the other children’s safety. Perhaps there are SEN suitable full-time summer camps he could attend for a week, allowing her to come with you and have a break?

Hi @GameOverBoys
I'm a SEN parent and I'd personally not be remotely upset, I'd fully understand why you'd struggle with DS behaviour.
But I do have pals with SEN kids who would be devastated to not be asked.
If I were you, I'd be honest with your friend, "Sally, you know I adore DS and enjoy spending time with him, but the holiday changes etc will be alot for everyone and I just don't think it's wise for him to come when the other DC will irritate him in a new environment and overwhelm him. I hope you're not hurt or offended and maybe we can have some nice days you and him and I because I do love his company, I just don't think the kids will cope on holiday together, please don't take this to say we don't love him, we just need to do what's best for DC who are already hyped with change. I hope you understand".

I don't think, SEN or not, one child can ruin things for others, often DP and I divide and conquer our bunch of wildlings so they don't miss out, if you invite one DC who'll ruin it for the rest, it's not fair on him either, he'd be resented.

Good luck!