To not invite friend because of SEN child

[GameOverBoys]

I know I’m going to get roasted here so I will try to give all the information.
Myself and a few friends have been discussing getting a villa for a holiday next summer. There are 5 families all with children aged 6 to 13. We all went to uni together with another friend who has two boys. Her eldest (10 years old) is on the pathway and I feel fairly confident that he is neuro-diverse. Maybe autism or ADHD but has traits of both. So far, we haven’t invited her but now we are looking for villas we need to make a decision if we are going to or not. She is a lovely, sweet woman and we would have no question if it wasn’t for the impact on the group that her eldest has. He is not safe to be left unsupervised with the other kids. In the past there has been constant issues ranging from rough play, making threats and impulsive unsafe actions to punching and throwing things at the others.
He’s very bright, articulate and thoughtful boy and thrives on adult interaction. Away from other kids, I enjoy spending time with him a lot.
During play dates and get togethers we tend to take it in turns to supervise the kids and he is generally much better behaved when watched and any major danger can be stopped. It’s also easy to spot triggers like competitive games. He is also better when there are fewer kids. If we go to a villa (with a swimming pool) supervising him will be impossible and we want to have a break and just let the kids have a bit of freedom. The other children are all old enough and sensible enough to listen to instructions, such as you can’t go to the pool area.
His mother does her best but when she supervises him his behaviour is much worse for her. Her youngest is well behaved so I don’t feel it’s particularly bad parenting, just a stressed out single parent with few resources left to deal with a very hard to parent child. She also has a physical disability which can sometimes stop her being able to intervene. If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent.
I don’t think she realises how bad it is because this has always been her situation, but it’s constant. The group get on so well when he’s not there. There is no need to get involved, other than the occasional requests for food etc and it’s really relaxing. When he is there it is drama the entire time. I think he just doesn’t have the social skills to mix in a big group and he get’s overstimulated. However, I know my friend would be devastated if she thought they were being excluded.

YABU - You are being unreasonable to exclude someone because of SEN

YANBU - You are not being unreasonable to want a relaxing holiday and only invite who you want to

Gah! No it wasn’t. It was in response to @milywaynonews.

If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent

If he was your child you would know that clear boundaries don’t work.

As someone with ADHD I can tell you that even as an adult if someone gives me clear boundaries you can bet that I would have forgotten what they were within a few moment after they were said

What you have to take on board is that any verbal cues, instructions is just another voice in my head competing with exerts from the Life of Brian playing on a loop, a TikTok video on wall panelling I am thinking of. Queen and Motley Crew having a battle of the bands contest and a few other things going on
Every thought, action, instruction and idea is a clone of me. All of these me’s are shouting at me to complete their instruction run through their idea etc

Its like filling Wembley stadium with people all shouting different things with video screens up playing all sorts of random stuff all at the same time. You can’t hear any one thing as it is just a roar of noise.

So your clear boundaries are just part of the noise.

I think you all have to prioritise your own children, I wouldn't want my own children having their holiday ruined because we decided to prioritise someone else's feelings. It'll be the children who will suffer here more than the adults, which isn't fair. It's sad her child is special needs but I'm sure she can find something more appropriate for her child that doesn't impact other's enjoyment. I think I feel most sorry for the other child who is excluded because of their sibling, maybe you could just invite the mum and this child? It might be better than excluding them all? I'm sure she will understand where you are all coming from.

Either include them and arrange appropriate measures to make it work for all, or don’t plan the holiday.
I’m posting as a single parent of a neurodiverse child.
There is so much separatism and exclusion in the world already. Being faced with it from those I considered myself close to would be devastating!

It was a suggestion if the group can afford it for their friend who they don’t seem to wish to exclude ? I don’t know their finances.
As I mentioned, I don’t have ‘family’ skin in the game, I’m just a junior worker with children in care, quite a few with additional needs. I basically did say I would refuse this type of set up if I was on safeguarding duty except the supervision I mentioned, I did not say anyone had to do anything.
The kids I work with don’t exactly get villa holidays anyway! But I’m used to handling safeguarding situations and I agreed this would be a no for me, unless additional measures. I don’t think I have much to add

I think the villa with that many children sounds horrendous. Can’t you just go with one other family or all stay in your own accommodation? Why do you all need to stay together? I find this bizarre, but then I like a relaxing break without tons of children and I do actually supervise my children on holiday. Sounds like you don’t. And your friend will be hurt by this.

Absolutely this!

1 day out of 365.

Just let that sink in.

Alternatively, perhaps the family that is objecting the most could be the family that doesn't go.

Oh op we have a friend group with a similar dynamic, my friends son is the very same and his mom is the sweetest softest lady , she tries so hard and her other kids are all fine. He also hurts our kids on play dates etc unless we are watching like hawks . In this situation I could not let my friend behind , this is her life for good , she doesn't get a break or a chance to relax , you guys do with the fact you all have non ND kids.

I'd chat with the other ladies and try and band together and make a holiday you could all enjoy whilst chipping in . She might not even go once you've invited her but she will be gutted if she isn't included . Poor lady , I feel for you all

Yep, why don’t NT parents realise that all these strategies often DO NOTHING when it comes to SEN kids.

You just have it easier. You are not a superior parent and you wouldn’t do a better job. Just please refrain on commenting on SEN kids when you have no clue! Why can’t people stay in their lane, as I said previously no SEN parent is going to them seriously anyway.

I think you either invite everyone from the group or don’t go as a group.

Simplified, it’s essentially no different to a child wanting to have a class party but not invite one child with SEN. The solution would be to either not have a class party and just choose close friends, or invite everybody. In my opinion the same invites here. She is part of the group, so excluding her for something entirely out of her control is heartless.

If you really don’t want your children to be around the child then just go on holiday with one friend, not the group.

Because this woman is their friend. And friends support and help each other.

There is not a hope in hell that I’d prioritise my friend’s need for a break over my daughter’s right to not have to go on holiday with a child that has been that violent to her in the past.

Exactly this

Do you actually mean you find out who won't keep going over and above to help you to the detriment of themselves while never expecting anything even remotely similar from you because whatever they're going through it could never ever touch how hard your life is? Yeah I imagine you do find out who those people are.

Friendships should be reciprocal at least to a degree and we have no idea what these other parents have to deal with in their lives, they may need this holiday just as much as the mum in question. If this mum is the type to forget all the other good times they've had together, take offence, cut her nose off to spite her face and never speak to OP after she explains their (completely understandable) reasoning for wanting a relaxing holiday then OP will have dodged a bullet in my opinion. Some people are so self absorbed they just happily take take take and only when someone finally says no to them do they suddenly realise.

not focusing on the violence?

because no NT child has EVER shoved someone, thrown anything, pushed, fought, argued, or got over exuberant?

Exactly!

^^This 100%

Firm boundaries, consequences etc are designed to correct bad behaviour in NT children who will learn from this. Impulsivity in a child with SEN renders many of those strategies ineffective. It does sound like you think she's doing it wrong.

You're absolutely entitled to a relaxing holiday. But I don't believe you can have that without excluding your friend I'm afraid.

It is. On a holiday that costs a lot of money on AL that is precious it really is.

I was thinking precisely this!! Who on earth would pay for someone to look after someone else's child on holiday, not a shared cost is it! Madness.

I can't in all honesty say YANBU, but...

It would be a very good and nice thing to do for someone who, it sounds like, has little or no support and would really benefit from a break. Surely between ten adults you could arrange that her DS was supported one-to-one for an amount of time enough to give his mother a break but not so much or so long as to ruin the others' holiday.

FFS surely the obvious answer is to not do a group holiday!

I don't understand why people insist on bringing drama and stress into their lives when it's not necessary.

If you all can't agree on something as basic as who gets to go, then it's never going to work so just move on with your lives and do something else. It will probably be more feasible in a couple years.

I said depending on finances of the group and the detailed situation.
Otherwise cf my second paragraph.

This sounds an eminently suitable solution.

Chances are her son wouldn’t enjoy being in such a large group of people anyway?

Group holidays if they are to work means every parent has to be absolutely responsible for their own child/ren, and that the children all get on.

But why should a group of people who will have a lovely time together, not do that to potentially save one persons feelings? The friend may understand and be ok with it.

I’m a parent of a child with similar behaviour to this and I wouldn’t be offended. I understand how demanding his behaviour is and how much hard work he can be and holidays are precious.

Not everything is suitable or fair for everyone that’s just life.

YABU the right thing to do is to speak to said friend about the holiday, she might even say it would not be a good idea. Sounds like none of you have the guts in case she does wants to go and then your happy little holiday with your friends and their healthy kids won’t be a secret.

toxic!