To not invite friend because of SEN child

[GameOverBoys]

I know I’m going to get roasted here so I will try to give all the information.
Myself and a few friends have been discussing getting a villa for a holiday next summer. There are 5 families all with children aged 6 to 13. We all went to uni together with another friend who has two boys. Her eldest (10 years old) is on the pathway and I feel fairly confident that he is neuro-diverse. Maybe autism or ADHD but has traits of both. So far, we haven’t invited her but now we are looking for villas we need to make a decision if we are going to or not. She is a lovely, sweet woman and we would have no question if it wasn’t for the impact on the group that her eldest has. He is not safe to be left unsupervised with the other kids. In the past there has been constant issues ranging from rough play, making threats and impulsive unsafe actions to punching and throwing things at the others.
He’s very bright, articulate and thoughtful boy and thrives on adult interaction. Away from other kids, I enjoy spending time with him a lot.
During play dates and get togethers we tend to take it in turns to supervise the kids and he is generally much better behaved when watched and any major danger can be stopped. It’s also easy to spot triggers like competitive games. He is also better when there are fewer kids. If we go to a villa (with a swimming pool) supervising him will be impossible and we want to have a break and just let the kids have a bit of freedom. The other children are all old enough and sensible enough to listen to instructions, such as you can’t go to the pool area.
His mother does her best but when she supervises him his behaviour is much worse for her. Her youngest is well behaved so I don’t feel it’s particularly bad parenting, just a stressed out single parent with few resources left to deal with a very hard to parent child. She also has a physical disability which can sometimes stop her being able to intervene. If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent.
I don’t think she realises how bad it is because this has always been her situation, but it’s constant. The group get on so well when he’s not there. There is no need to get involved, other than the occasional requests for food etc and it’s really relaxing. When he is there it is drama the entire time. I think he just doesn’t have the social skills to mix in a big group and he get’s overstimulated. However, I know my friend would be devastated if she thought they were being excluded.

YABU - You are being unreasonable to exclude someone because of SEN

YANBU - You are not being unreasonable to want a relaxing holiday and only invite who you want to

Honestly this is such an awful thing to say! SEN kids (& their parents) are all total individuals, you can't lump all SEN kids together as violent little buggers with self absorbed parents. What a terrible thing to come on here to say.

I don't think anyone chooses a child with disabilities unless they are fostering/adopting (and have been advised of the child's needs and choose to go ahead) Many disabilities are not apparent until later either. My child's only became apparent when he was about 4 and there seemed a difference between him and his peer group. Ops friend most likely wishes her reality was easier or different also. I've heard stories of couples desperately wanting a baby, then baby is unexpectedly born with a disability (or grows up to display extra needs) and partner can't deal and ups and leaves. The other then left in an unexpected and very hard situation

Re-read my post. At NO STAGE did I say all SEN kids are "violent little buggers with self absorbed parents". That's your interpretation. In fact, I said whether by a child who is NT or ND. The comments about parents were about the parents on this site who don't show any empathy for others.

I don’t understand why some posters on here seem to think that stress is exclusive to being a ND child parent, and therefore the need of a holiday is greater for that woman than anyone else. Someone posted a link to it being comparable to a soldier in combat.

Sure. It is unbelievably stressful.

But so is dealing with illness, suspected illness, a dying parent, a dependent parent with Alzheimer’s, job stress, impending threat to employment, divorce, mental health issues…

No one here knows what the other families are dealing with, or how much they might need a holiday. Why does this woman have to be prioritised above the safety and needs of everyone else? It seems like some posters seem to think as they experience the stress of having an ND child, nothing can be ‘worse’ or make someone ‘more deserving’ than they. And that’s wrong.

The impact on the parent may be the same, but OP and her friends aren’t excluding her just because her child is ND (and indeed they regularly include her), they’re excluding her because her child is a proven risk to their children.

Sounds like they regularly do. That doesn’t mean they want to do it every time though, or that it’s unreasonable if they don’t.

Maybe they just want to be able to relax on holiday and not be constantly on guard to the extent they would have to if he was there. I’m sure she would like to be able to do that too, but the fact is she doesn’t have the option. That isn’t their fault though, and it’s not their responsibility to always prioritize her needs over theirs.

Yes because it was my choice to have a child with autism. 🙄

Many SEN parents didn’t know their child had these disabilities until years later. My oldest is ND and was diagnosed with autism at 5. His younger brother is NT. It took 2 years to diagnose him and his symptoms weren’t evident until 3. He was an easy, happy baby and toddler, lots of smiles and laughter, but wasn’t speaking as much as he should and we were trying different things to help with his language. Neither DH and I had experience with autism or even knew people with it.

For your sake, if you’re so concerned about the possibility of having a disabled child which is a possibility regardless of NT or ND, you know unforeseen accidents like dangerous falls, car accidents, sports, or medical conditions like cancers etc, than don’t have children.

So here again is the selfishness that it's on others to manage. It's just not on. It's not the fault of the parent. But it's also not the fault of the other parents. It's very self-absorbed to just say 'oh well the others can help manage him'. It's that lack of self awareness of what you're asking that leaves me open mouthed. It sounds like the others have done way more than their fair share of managing him. They've done their bit, it's not on them to do any more and it is not fair for anyone to expect them to.

I can only go with my experience of a family with a severely ND child. I can honestly say that his mother literally goes through hell EVERY day, day in day out. I wouldn't swap my life for 10 million pounds. She gets hit, bitten, spat on, he has 2 hour long meltdowns where he trashed the house. He is 12 and twice her size. Her husband works so she is in sole charge every day. Her other children are terrorised. It is no life, it is the hardest thing I have ever seen. I couldn't do it. I honestly couldn't. It is fucking relentless and there is no respite. It is literally hell on earth for her. Nothing else could compare that you mentioned to the hell that is her life from sun up to sundown. He doesn't sleep either.

I agree with this 100%. There was a point when my dad had severe dementia, and my mum had died and I was trying to care for him and work full time and juggle two kids aswell as dealing with horrific perimenopause anxiety that I was on the verge of having a nervous breakdown. There is absolutely no way I would have been able to take on the responsibility of supervising another person's child with challenging behaviour on holiday. I simply couldnt physically or mentally handle it. It has nothing to do with "being kind" or whatever, I was at my absolute stress limit and it would not have been possible for me to do that.

I'm also a bit surprised that people are suggesting a different person supervise him every day on holiday- that seems like a recipe for disaster to me- a different parenting approach for him to cope with every single day for a child who already struggles with new situations and boundaries. Its not comfortable at all disciplining someone else's child when you arent familiar with their triggers or personality. I can see this turning into an absolute disaster and actually being really detrimental to the boy in question thus making his behaviour worse, not better.

Of course all those things are incredibly stressful and difficult. IME having an ND child makes all of these more stressful that a more 'typical' family would experience. For example, my DM died last summer. Kids are off on summer holidays. With NT kids you may be able to use holiday clubs or have family or friends take care of them so I could spend time caring for my DM with the rest of my family.

The fact that you think you know better than her how to parent an sen child makes me think you are massively unreasonable

Oh FFS, you are all derailing off the TiddlyPom post, that's her opinion, move on, it's not what the original OP is about.

For me, the issue here is the fact that the child is potentially violent. A friend of mine has got an autistic daughter, who is prone to serious but non-violent meltdowns - absolutely no issue with going on holidays together, she is who she is.

Another friend has got a son, who is also ND and is currently waiting for an assessment. He is unpredictable and last time got annoyed and sprayed cleaning fluid into my son's eyes (fortunately all ok). There is no way I would go on holiday together. I would prefer for them to be invited so as not to be cruel, but I would pull out myself if they decide to come along. My kids' safety is my priority and I can't spend 2 weeks of my holidays being on high alert. I would much rather miss out on joint memories.

The fact you can’t read past that and attempt to read the rest of OP’s posts doesn’t make you look particularly great either.

I agree- that all sounds horribly stressful and I am so so sorry.

But that still does not mean others dont experience stress or need a break.

I have a child who is ND and visually impaired. She also has some physical difficulties. I thank god every day that she is not violent or destructive. It is hard and lonely being a parent of dc with additional needs. I can only imagine how much harder it is if dc do display such behaviours.
We have a great group of friends who we do trips and days out with. It’s often dc with no ND or disabilities who cause drama or something, that’s just dc and in a big group problems will occur. There was a (luckily short) time when I had to decline invitations because my dc went through a time when she would have loud meltdowns and struggled to get on with the other dc. I declined not only for her sake but also for the other dc and families. I was open about this and luckily my friends told me it was no problem and we should come but I reflected and sat down with dh and we both decided that it was unfair on everyone. It was horrible but unfortunately lots of things are in life, especially when you have a disability. There were times when my dc getting upset affected others and I did not want to spoil everyone’s time. My friends and their dc are entitled to relax and have a stress free time just as much as we are. I didn’t ask for a dc with disabilities but that is what life gave me so I accept that and accept my life may be difficult at times. I would appreciate my friends being honest with me if they were going away as a group and felt it unsuitable for my dc. Mine would need to be excluded from some events for safety reasons due to her sight for example and I appreciate having that conversation with my friends. I think although I would find it difficult I would understand if my dc was violent.

I wouldn’t envision a holiday with that many people would be smooth sailing regardless of any difficulties or disabilities. All dc push boundaries and cause issues from time to time and they will all require some supervision near water and in an unknown location. Even the adults will at times get fractious or snippy. It’s totally expected in a large group where everyone is on top of each other.

If I was the op I personally would be happy to look after my dc and the dc with sen. That’s because although I do need a break I don’t mind looking after dc and I do work with them and it’s not a chore to me.

However, I would draw the line at my own dc being injured so I can understand that point of view.

I think you just need to have a frank conversation with your friend op.

I wouldn’t invite him. My sympathy lies with the poor girl who was pushed off a climbing frame, her feelings count just as much as this boy’s.

As a parent of ND DC (now grown) I find NT kids can be very cruel and complex. My DC have quite severe social anxiety related to ASD and couldn't cope with the rough housing and in your face behaviour that is normal for NT DC that haven't yet learnt appropriate behaviour. You have said the child in question prefers the company of adults (who don't behave this way). Maybe your friend would view the NT children that would be on the holiday as too much? If you really want to go ahead with this, could he not stay with the adults most of the time? Is he likely to push an adult?

But the other parents who are getting a bit of a break whilst their own kids are playing dont want soebody else's kid foisted on tehm. haveing a child there changes the dynamic

Right, but that doesn’t mean that other people don’t also get stressed and want a break.

That your options are, through circumstance, limited doesn’t mean that theirs also have to be, or that they have to measure their stress against yours. That someone may struggle more than you doesn’t invalidate you, and nor does your experience invalidate anyone else.

Some astonishingly patronising suggestions on here.
@GameOverBoys, your friend is an adult and you need to involve her in the discussion. Rather than embarrassing her with faux concern — “We’d love to have you, but it would just be too much for your poor DS” — or going ahead without her, I would have an honest conversation with her, along the lines of “This is what we’re planning. Do you fancy joining or would it be too stressful for you and DS? What could we do to make
it work?”
That way, she gets to decide whether it’s doable or not, or doable with a few modifications, and doesn’t feel that it’s all been discussed and sewn up behind her back.
The rota for keeping an eye on the kids sounds perfectly reasonable, with 10 adults there, and hardly an enormous sacrifice, if it means your friend gets to come.