To not invite friend because of SEN child

[GameOverBoys]

I know I’m going to get roasted here so I will try to give all the information.
Myself and a few friends have been discussing getting a villa for a holiday next summer. There are 5 families all with children aged 6 to 13. We all went to uni together with another friend who has two boys. Her eldest (10 years old) is on the pathway and I feel fairly confident that he is neuro-diverse. Maybe autism or ADHD but has traits of both. So far, we haven’t invited her but now we are looking for villas we need to make a decision if we are going to or not. She is a lovely, sweet woman and we would have no question if it wasn’t for the impact on the group that her eldest has. He is not safe to be left unsupervised with the other kids. In the past there has been constant issues ranging from rough play, making threats and impulsive unsafe actions to punching and throwing things at the others.
He’s very bright, articulate and thoughtful boy and thrives on adult interaction. Away from other kids, I enjoy spending time with him a lot.
During play dates and get togethers we tend to take it in turns to supervise the kids and he is generally much better behaved when watched and any major danger can be stopped. It’s also easy to spot triggers like competitive games. He is also better when there are fewer kids. If we go to a villa (with a swimming pool) supervising him will be impossible and we want to have a break and just let the kids have a bit of freedom. The other children are all old enough and sensible enough to listen to instructions, such as you can’t go to the pool area.
His mother does her best but when she supervises him his behaviour is much worse for her. Her youngest is well behaved so I don’t feel it’s particularly bad parenting, just a stressed out single parent with few resources left to deal with a very hard to parent child. She also has a physical disability which can sometimes stop her being able to intervene. If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent.
I don’t think she realises how bad it is because this has always been her situation, but it’s constant. The group get on so well when he’s not there. There is no need to get involved, other than the occasional requests for food etc and it’s really relaxing. When he is there it is drama the entire time. I think he just doesn’t have the social skills to mix in a big group and he get’s overstimulated. However, I know my friend would be devastated if she thought they were being excluded.

YABU - You are being unreasonable to exclude someone because of SEN

YANBU - You are not being unreasonable to want a relaxing holiday and only invite who you want to

At the end of the day, you are ultimately responsible for your children and the safety and wellbeing of your children has to be a priority above your loyalty to your friend. If her son has physically hurt other kids in the past then I don't think it's possible to invite your friend, especially as it sounds like your friend is not able to take control of the situation and properly supervise her son.

The choice you are left with is whether to go on the group holiday without your friend or not go on the group holiday at all. It's not an easy choice. If you do go, at least be honest with her.

No, but they don’t need to, do they? There’s a lot of things people can’t imagine unless they’ve experienced them, but that doesn’t mean they’re at fault for this.

The friend needing a holiday more, according to OP, does not mean that OP and friends should be happy to sacrifice their own holiday plans and risk the safety of their own children.

No one said they didn’t.

Presumably those these children have a history of being fine together, with the exception of one who threatens, throws things, punches and shoves them. The inclusion of that one clearly significantly increases the stress and risk factor. I doubt they’d want to expose themselves and their children to an NT child that behaved like that either.

Of course they do. And I’d imagine if the OP had posted about excluding a friend with a horribly behaved violent son, she would get a mix of supportive posts and people telling her the son must be ND and it’s not his fault. You really can’t win.
Also I’m baffled at the posts saying holidays are never relaxing with kids. Erm, yes they are? I’m going with my friend and her husband this year, we’ve been loads, kids get on like a house on fire (not without minor squabbles but nothing stressful and nothing they don’t resolve very quickly). We have very similar parenting styles and always have a great time.

"I’ll get roasted for this but I don’t want a child with disabilities, it’s a choice I’ve made which coincides with being pro choice. I don’t want my life being made difficult because of a difficult child and being reduced to isolation."

A lot of disabilities and special needs are only diagnosed way after birth, and not antenatally. In that sense, becoming a parent is truly a lottery.

Alright fucknuts. Have you considered those of us with kids with disabilities were UNAWARE of this before their birth? Or that maybe we love our kids unconditionally, because they are not a disability, they instead have one. Even had I known my child would have a disability, I would not have chosen to end their life because of it. We once had an incident similar to OPs. Except my child WAS the victim. Painted as the opposite. She had been attacked by the first child and pushed out in defence. Why? Because she is non verbal. This child knew that and picked on her, knowing she couldn't tell. It's not always the child with SEN who is to blame. So why not take your ableist comments and fuck right off.

@RedTedBoom Really? Victim-blaming the girl. Making out it's HER fault, and she done something to deserve it? How dare you. This sort of self-absorbed absolving the boy who did it, and blaming the girl really turns me off supporting SEN parents. Some of them truly seem to have no consideration for anyone else, and will blame other children for the actions of their child. It's absolutely disgusting and uncalled for. The OP says:
In the past there has been constant issues ranging from rough play, making threats and impulsive unsafe actions to punching and throwing things at the others.

and

When he is there it is drama the entire time

So please stop victim-blaming that little girl.

Well they clearly are as they have a good friend group with each other. People don't stay friends with those who aren't good.
What they want is their children to be safe and to minimise stress on their holiday.

This👆🏽

I agree that all the conversations behind NDC-parents back isn't necessary.
A one on one kind and empathic conversation would be way simpler and better. Whatever the final outcome someone (parent of previously hurt DC or NDC-parent) is going to feel upset. Additionally this is likely to be a re-occurring theme considering it's all a big group of long-time friends (and kids). With or without NDC the holiday will probably have numerous issues considering the group being so big.

Because you probably couldn't ever understand how hard it is to parent an SEN kid

I can imagine it must be incredibly tough. And I feel for parents in this position. However there does seem to me to be sometimes that these parents seem (understandably) self-absorbed and don't think to stop to think of the impact on other children. It's not just about you and your child. No child should have to be pushed, shoved, punched, threatened, whether by a child who is NT or ND. I do find a lot on here that parents with children with SEN just don't seem to have much sympathy for the other children or anyone else affected. That's what stands out to me.

This is exactly the response my friends would get from me 😂

Fuck no, can’t think of anything worse, have a few sangrias for me and bring me back a souvenir 😁👋🏻

It's one thing having an abortion, wow another giving up a live baby you've booked with.

DS was healthy as far as we know. 4 weeks until the generic tests which predicted disability. We'd crowd and begged him not to die for four weeks but you think after that you'd have just walked out the hospital and let childrens services take over? We've been logged to believe how disability will lessen with time, so you may have decided to stick it out, but at 8 he's been diagnosed with autism. Would you put him into care now? I'll just tell his brothers turns out he wasn't prefect so we gave him away?

I know someone who had a healthy baby, baby nearly died of Sids. They revived him, but it took too long. He'll have disabilities for life, healthy one minute, lots of disabilities the next.

A friend had a prefect pregnancy, complicated birth, baby deprived of oxygen but survived with CP. Would you tell the older siblings you gave her away because she's no longer right for you or pretend she's died?

What about a12 yo having a serious accident on the way home from school one day?

Life is more complex than "I'd have an abortion +"

People saying they should talk to the parent. But as shown on here, parents of children with SEN get their backs up and are very defensive. And, often victim-blame other children. OP might feel to frightened to speak to her friend, I know I would be, just by the way SEN parents on here act. It's no wonder she sought (what she thought would be) a safe space on here to seek guidance.

I feel like we need a new ist or ism for those that are constantly expected to enable the needs and wants of the few to our own continued detriment. Stop throwing around insulting terms to justify your arguments, stand up and say what you mean without belittling or accusing people.

I am just thinking, if I were the child's mother, of course I would prefer to be asked to go but I would decline. I would be very aware of my child's capabilities and how that impacts on others and I would not want to have to have them deal with that on a holiday that they paid for. I could not literally sit there and watch my child cause chaos and ruin everyone's enjoyment, I would rather stay at home.

This is true.A driver long concentration fr a second is all that stands between a healty person and permanent disability.

So sorry it's such a tough situation OP, you're definitely not BU, but that doesn't stop the potential for her to be really hurt, it's one of those really hard situations.

I'm with other posters that you need to tell her why she isn't being invited, that you all love her, love her kids, but the elder is just too disruptive and it would make the holiday too hard. It might damage the friendship unfortunately but it's definitely the most respectful and kind way of handing a really difficult situation.

Empathy and understanding are not limitless resources. They also have to to go both ways at different times, and sometimes there will be a conflict because you can’t suit the needs of all parties at the same time.

It’s one thing being empathetic with a friend, but what is being empathetic to a friend means being unempathetic to another friend? Or to your own child? It’s not so simple then, is it?

how can you choose to have a child without a disability? I think this is news to the medical community. Apart from a very tiny subset of disabilities that can be tested for in utero. Not to mention that many disabilities develop at or after the birth.

This isn’t about your ND child who doesn’t push and shove, it’s about and ND child that does.

As much as it sucks, it isn’t anyone else’s fault and more than it’s yours.