To not invite friend because of SEN child

[GameOverBoys]

I know I’m going to get roasted here so I will try to give all the information.
Myself and a few friends have been discussing getting a villa for a holiday next summer. There are 5 families all with children aged 6 to 13. We all went to uni together with another friend who has two boys. Her eldest (10 years old) is on the pathway and I feel fairly confident that he is neuro-diverse. Maybe autism or ADHD but has traits of both. So far, we haven’t invited her but now we are looking for villas we need to make a decision if we are going to or not. She is a lovely, sweet woman and we would have no question if it wasn’t for the impact on the group that her eldest has. He is not safe to be left unsupervised with the other kids. In the past there has been constant issues ranging from rough play, making threats and impulsive unsafe actions to punching and throwing things at the others.
He’s very bright, articulate and thoughtful boy and thrives on adult interaction. Away from other kids, I enjoy spending time with him a lot.
During play dates and get togethers we tend to take it in turns to supervise the kids and he is generally much better behaved when watched and any major danger can be stopped. It’s also easy to spot triggers like competitive games. He is also better when there are fewer kids. If we go to a villa (with a swimming pool) supervising him will be impossible and we want to have a break and just let the kids have a bit of freedom. The other children are all old enough and sensible enough to listen to instructions, such as you can’t go to the pool area.
His mother does her best but when she supervises him his behaviour is much worse for her. Her youngest is well behaved so I don’t feel it’s particularly bad parenting, just a stressed out single parent with few resources left to deal with a very hard to parent child. She also has a physical disability which can sometimes stop her being able to intervene. If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent.
I don’t think she realises how bad it is because this has always been her situation, but it’s constant. The group get on so well when he’s not there. There is no need to get involved, other than the occasional requests for food etc and it’s really relaxing. When he is there it is drama the entire time. I think he just doesn’t have the social skills to mix in a big group and he get’s overstimulated. However, I know my friend would be devastated if she thought they were being excluded.

YABU - You are being unreasonable to exclude someone because of SEN

YANBU - You are not being unreasonable to want a relaxing holiday and only invite who you want to

Ultimately this is it. You have a choice - have a relaxing holiday or protect your friendship and your friend's feelings. You can't have both, that's just life.

Is this one of the situations where money and support only flows one way?

The family who had the misfortune to have their daughter injured by this boy? Yeah they sound like the real villains don't they? She's just grist for the mill I suppose. Seriously what are you on about with that point?

“If he was my child I would take him for regular breaks, providing calming strategies, give clear boundaries and follow through but he isn’t and I can tell her how to parent.”

OP this comes across as very judgemental. This is where you lost me. No one has any idea what it’s like raising an ND child until it’s your child that you’re responsible for 24/7.

These would likely heighten the situation for my son & make things worse not better.

I’m also certain that he behaves worse for her as she’s his “safe space”. He likely masks for the rest of you because he’s afraid to be himself. He relaxes with his mum & all that tension from holding it together spills out. It has not a thing to do with boundaries & follow through.

In this situation I would be honest with her and come up with suggestions to make it easier for him and her son. Like perhaps inviting the grandparents (they might be more willing to help look after him if they're getting a holiday out of it) and having them stay in accomodation nearby where they can retreat as necessary.
I did have one friend who I didn't invite back to my place and that was due to the damage her child caused inside our home. It wasn't because he had additional needs, it was because his mum wasn't able/ willing to control him and it was exhausting for the rest of the adults with kids to keep parenting him where she was not (as well as their sorting out their own kids).

It isn't 1 day out of 365, it's 1 day out of a 10 day holiday or 2 per couple. I think most people treat family holidays as precious time to spend with their family, I wouldn't want a fifth of an expensive holiday compromised for someone else's child even if they were my friend.

Tbh I just can't think of any friend I have who's friendship I value less than a holiday 🤷‍♀️ what's the point of having friends that mean less to you than a holiday?!

So you've all basically chatted together about how you don't want her and her son there.

You're already terrible friends. Why not go the whole hog.

Her and her family deserve better friends.

I don't think the holiday should happen, there is no way to do it without making her feel awful devastated.

What about leaving behind the family that really objected. To be honest it's bad enough that you are all having conversations about this behind her back.

He is not safe to be left unsupervised with the other kids. In the past there has been constant issues ranging from rough play, making threats and impulsive unsafe actions to punching and throwing things at the others
.
all of this could apply to any the others too. I wouldn't leave my 6yo unsupervised, and rough play, being impulsive and even physically fighting with the other children could apply to any of them.

to be honest I doubt a single mum with a SEN child would even want to holiday with a bunch of women who have no idea what it’s like to parent a SEN child.

There are resorts that have a few smaller villas with a private pool. I'd have a look at something like that......tbh I'd do that even without the addition of a child struggling with SN. It only takes one fall out and the whole holiday can be ruined.

It's absolutely up to you whether you invite her or not, but the reality is her life is pretty shit and her world is probably rather small right now. As a supportive group of friends look at how this can work and be realistic about expectations. Also be realistic with her around this too. Chances are she won't even go, but the support of good friends and that inclusion will be invaluable to her right now.

What a stupid thing to say! Why is it toxic to not want to have to be on constant alert for this child's behaviour? It's not the childs nor the mothers fault but it is also not the rest of the group's problem to deal with!

They don't NEED to go on this holiday all together and leave her out, that's a choice.

It's a tricky one.

What I will tell you is that being a parent of a child with additional needs can be so, so lonely. Plus she's a single mum to boot.

Do you actually mean you find out who won't keep going over and above to help you to the detriment of themselves while never expecting anything even remotely similar from you because whatever they're going through it could never ever touch how hard your life is? Yeah I imagine you do find out who those people are

All we ask is to be treated like other people.
The worse violence and bullying we have experienced comes from those NT parents and their children who think it is fair game to bully and attack a child with an SEN.
As for expecting help them I have found I am suddenly everybody’s best friend when they want something for free.

When one of these clique of mothers did have a 2nd child and they realised that it wasn’t their brilliant parenting that made child 1 exceptionally bright and well behaved but because child 1 was NT and child 2 was ND and no amount of Naughty Steps and clear boundaries were going to work.
Suddenly she was the one being ostracised

I have never asked for any help from friends I just ask that they don’t think I am a bad parent because I don’t punish my children for behaviour they can’t help and I get invited to things and give me the chance to decline if I think it isn’t something that I think is suitable.

Over the years I have found out who my friends are and sadly I don’t have anyone to rely on.

But why should a group of people who will have a lovely time together, not do that to potentially save one persons feelings? The friend may understand and be ok with it.

I’m a parent of a child with similar behaviour to this and I wouldn’t be offended. I understand how demanding his behaviour is and how much hard work he can be and holidays are precious.

Not everything is suitable or fair for everyone that’s just life.

Perfectly put @Littleme2023

It’s also classic MN that a bunch of women unrelated to the child are pure evil for not wanting to pay for 1:1 care or risk their own kids getting seriously hurt, but the father of the child never looks after him and that’s totally unremarkable.

Women are expected to be better parents of random children than the actual parents are.

If mum never gets a break, it’s DAD’s fault. Not the fault of a bunch of women who just want to go on holiday and not have to run a rotaed creche or end up in A&E.

Because it's not like this is the only lovely thing they can do in life? They can all go on their separate holidays and have a lovely time. So just do that.

If you can't do something lovely without devastating someone who is supposedly a friend, then don't do it. Do some other lovely thing.

Honestly this conversation would have lasted about a minute amongst my friends. 'Can't all go without upsetting X, ok guess we're not going then'.

Completely agree. As someone who used to do risk assessments working with young people and doing day trips, it would be clearly flagged that this child needs a one-to-one environment rather than being in a large group of children. For both their benefit and the other children’s.

yes, thankfully no lasting harm was caused by the sounds of it, but next time a similar incident occurs it may have a far more severe outcome which would be horrific for all concerned 😟

What a load of crap when everyone has to spend time, money, energy and risk to have a shit time, just to enable someone else's child. She isn't calling herself a victim, she's saying its a difficult situation. She's also said she thinks she should invite her but another couple are against it due to the son having hurt their daughter. I'd not take my child away with a child that was likely to hurt them, the whole world shouldn't have to revolve around the minority. All this will cause is a split in the group of parents protecting their own children, and other parents putting theirs at risk so as to protect feelings.

Honestly, I think just cancel it full stop. No one is going to win here, I'd be gutted if I was the left out parent, whether I understood or not, and I'd be pissed off if I was a different parent having my week ruined by being on edge trying to stop my child being harmed.

Oh that's a tough one.

If I was asked this by my friends, I couldn't put my asd son through it as I know it would be too much for him to handle, and he doesn't sound anywhere near as stimulated as this young child, maybe see if she can join you for a few days without the children, and work out there father and grandparents having him for a few days?

He acts up for her but is better for the other adults.

He unmasks for her and masks for the other adults. "Acting up" is what an autistic child not masking looks like. Masking is exhausting for the autistic person and, if they cannot have regular breaks from doing so, they will meltdown regardless of who is present or where they are when they run out of capacity to cope.

Being in a huge villa with lots of other people will be a huge ask for an autistic child. If you want to invite this friend, I would suggest separating the accommodation so that the little girl who her son shoved out of his way on the climbing frame without thinking the consequences of that through is not in the same villa as the friend and her son, that he gets his own room next to his mother's room so that he has his space to go to, and that activities are planned with plenty of "breathing" space around them and it's clear that not all the families have to go on all the activities so he can opt-out if it's too much for him that day.

You are not excluding this child because he has sen. Its because his behaviour would make things too difficult and not safe on holiday yabu.

I can't see how to vote, but holidays are expensive and time to relax.dont feel bad

I would not invite her. You need to consider the needs of all the kids, not just one. That poor girl. The message it sends to her is her needs don't matter and she has to put up with violence from a boy. Put the girl's and the other children's needs first.