I think I annoyed my SIL

[bly]

She was complaining about how everything falls apart when her nanny gets sick ( she has two small kids and the nanny looks after them ). Her nanny has got sick this week and my SIL has also needed some time off work because she was sick too, so I guess she's stressed about being behind on her work. ( started a new job recently ).

I replied saying that it won't be like that for long and that once she puts the little one in nursery, things will get easier and once they go to school, it will get easier again.

She works full time and has the nanny / nursery for the older child while she works.

She seemed a bit annoyed and said something like, it would be nice if her feelings were acknowledged about the situation.

I was just trying to be positive. Should I just shut up next time ?

My mum just tries to give advice on grandkids but can't even do that. SIL just explodes

SIL very very clearly doesn't want advice. She sees it as interfering. Just stop with the advice and things will probably improve.

(Although do advise your brother to cover his share of the days when childcare falls through.)

Well then step back and let her make her own mistakes. Or tell your brother that his wife is being a dick to your mum, if that’s what she is doing

Obviously we are only going on what you put in your earlier posts and it’s a bit of a drip feed to say that she is the one that speaks badly

Maybe so, but if your example here is anything to go by, I'm not convinced ye are as kind as you think ye are! And FWIW, unsolicited advice, especially on how to raise children, is exceptionally infuriating!

From the sound of it if I knew the back story I would think your mum is interfering, difficult and has an annoying tenancy to play the martyr when she knows she's upset someone and you have learned her bad habits.

Lots of older mums want to offer advice to young mums, especially when the children involved are their grandchildren but it isn't always helpful. Medical advice has changed a lot in 30 years, your SILs circumstances are likely very different to your mum's and advice to do things differently can often sound like criticism of how someone is currently doing things. If your mum is upsetting your SIL so often that she "literally can't say anything right" I'm willing to bet that what she's saying comes across to SIL as constant criticism.

A few people have asked this and you haven't answered. If SIL is very early in a new job why is your brother not the person taking time off to look after the children?

@Breakfastofmilk he's away on a business trip.

Is she asking for this advice? From your mum I mean?

It does sound like you and your mum have put her in the ‘bad dil/sil’ box and so you are just looking for ways to be negative to her.

By the way the periods where my husband was away and I had very small kids and no help and various people sick was so unbelievably hard (for me, not saying it would be for everyone). I am a perfectly competent person in many areas of my life but I remember being in absolutely chaotic despair.

Sometimes she does I guess. Other times my mum may have made really small suggestions. Nothing too much.

My SIL gets funny about the smallest things. Like mum suggested she give her kids milk first thing in the morning and SIL pretty much told her to back off.

Another time I suggested that her DDs shoes were rubbing on her heels and she got funny about it. You literally cannot say anything. We are just trying to protect the kids. If she's missed something, because she has a lot on.

UNSOLICITED ADVICE: a guide

@bly I’m assuming that while you don’t have children, you do have a job. Imagine you are having a rough time with some change going on at work; it’s demanding, unpredictable and you are finding it stressful and is shaking your confidence. Well you are in luck. I too had a job! It was 25 years ago and a different job, but I’ll pop round to your workplace regularly whilst you are actually working and and help you with my advice on what you should be trying and doing, even though practice has changed, and I’ll also let you and others present know how successful I was when I did it my way.

Of course you are not as emotionally involved in your job as people are with their own babies, you don’t love it as fiercely, but you might get the idea.

Going back to unsolicited childcare advice; this is how it reads, - and it’s not really what the unsolicited advice is, it could be the polar opposite:

I did X and they were sleeping through at 3 months/ walking/talking at 9 months = my way was better and I was better at it. I am a better mother

Mine never did X = my superior parenting avoided these issues I mean why would you ever bother saying this sentence? All babies are different, even full siblings.

It’s even more exasperating when the advice goes against the latest guidance based on peer reviewed research on feeding, nutrition. safe sleeping and attachment. My MIL was actually mostly fine, but she had a thing about wrapping babies up warm and it was dangerous when she’d do it when I was out of the room.

Back off unsolicited advice and dismissing anything she has a moan about and see if your relationship improves. The fact she was “alright afterwards” suggests she’s a nice woman who isn’t trying to alienate you.

Ah! Well if your niece needs protection from her mother she’s obviously off the scale and you should be talking to your brother and possibly alerting social services. You didn’t mention any serious concerns in your previous posts.

What other things do she and the father miss?

I get what you're saying, but it's well intentioned isn't it. I would be able to understand that. SIL can't.

In any case, SIL is the type who always feels cold and tends to put a lot of layers on her kids. Sometimes they look so uncomfortable. So you're saying it's not ok for us to try and make the kids more comfortable ??

It’s pretty concerning that a mother, a father, a nanny and a nursery are all failing to notice these causes for concern underlying your mum’s well-intentioned advice.

sometimes they're finger nails aren't cut. I mentioned it once and she also didn't like that

You're getting an awful lot of advice in this thread but don't seem to be taking it or very grateful for it. We're just trying to help your relationship.

Who cares if something is well intentioned if the receiver doesn't like it?

I could be well intentioned by going into my neighbours garden and cutting her lawn and weeding. She is well within her rights to tell me to back off. I cant just complain ' but it was well intentioned' and then say 'fine, I will never do anyone any favours anymore'. As soon as she tells me she doesn't want me on her lawn. Then I know! To keep barging back in under the guise of being well intentioned would be awful.

It smacks of superiority and arrogance from you and your mum. Clearly SIL is over sensitive and doesn't know how to look after her own kids properly, so we need to keep bashing home the right thing to do because we have all the answers and are just trying to help her out'

Back off! She has told you she doesn't want the 'help' and if she did want the help she probably wouldn't come to someone who doesn't have children or had them decades agago. Why on earth do you think you are the right one to help her when she is telling you that you are not? She has even gently tried to help you understand by chatting about toxic positivity (in case you missed it, she was telling you that is what you do and how damaging it is) yet you bulldozed through and just keep whacking her over the head with it.

None of us have any links to your SIL, but the vast majority are telling you this is your problem.

Eeek I was initially on your side OP, but the more you post the more I feel sorry for SIL.

You and DM need to just stop giving her unwanted advice, she doesn’t need it.

Why do you not give this advice to your brother?

Why can’t their father cut their finger nails?

That is ridiculously critical. Do you have any idea of the very long list of things she has to care about before she reaches anything in the zone of fingernails? Why would you mention it, what possible harm will come to the children if their nails are a bit long for a few days? This isn't protection, it's nitpicking.

How often do you see her without making any helpful suggestions?

I guarantee when you have DC they will occasionally have nails that need a cut, or shoes that are a bit small (because they fit last week but a growth spurt has happened), or slightly inappropriate clothing because you misjudged the temperature. These are all very normal things that happen to parents all the time. No one needs their in laws, or anyone else, pointing them out.

The more you post, the more amazed I am that your SIL is still spending time with you.

And if your mum is this critical with you when you have DC, you may well find it infuriating too.

@JenniferBarkley I get it, but I just want to help. I would cut them, but it would annoy her that I noticed / pointed it out.

When I noticed the problem with the shoes, I was just trying to find another pair to make my niece comfortable and she hated it. Why can't we help each other out ? I know she's busy. I know she can't do it all. So if I notice something, why can't I just take care of it.

Like sometimes I notice the dog bowl is dirty and I've given it a rinse and that also didn't go down well. I can't imagine I would ever be like this when someone is trying to help me !

She doesn't interpret it as help, she interprets it as criticism. Stop trying to help.

I do think you are coming from a good space however with every update you are sounding more and more interfering

Why not back off for a bit. Bite your tongue. Maybe the space will be welcome and actually turn your relationship about and you never know she may even ask for help in the future if she doesn’t feel that she is being constantly criticised

with every update you are sounding more and more interfering

That. I'm a Grandma of small GCs. I notice little things like nails and stuff too, but I NEVER say anything. However well intended, you just don't do that.

If you and your mum are constantly giving her unwarranted advice or pointing out her 'failings', then it's no wonder she reacts badly.

If I mentioned the things I notice (all of a similarly trivial nature to those you've pointed out) it would come from a good place. But I STILL don't do it.

You can't expect her to accept implied criticism well, whatever is behind it.

Unless there's abuse, how she cares for her child is none of your business. Long nails, a slightly rubbing shoe, and a 'need' to drink milk in the morning (It's not s need) do not amount to anything that needs your interference. Just stop doing it.
When you have your own kidd, you'll understand. Until then, just take the advice of those here who know.

It seems to me that you and your mum are shockingly insensitive.

Well, a while ago she randomly showed me some stuff about toxic positivity and we talked about how everyone does it sometimes but how it can be unhelpful. She reminded me of that today and basically implied that's what I was doing. It's not up to her to tell me how to talk to her. She does this to my mum too. As always manage to offend her / speak to her the wrong way.

You seem to have a complete inability to listen to her. She tells you how she feels and you decide she is telling you how to talk to her.

You both give her unasked for advice. At least ask first can you suggest something, then if she says no just leave it.

But you have decided you and your mum are right, and she is wrong. So long as you have that mindset, you will never have a good relationship with your SIL, and this will also affect the relationship with her children. If you want that to change, you need to look inside yourselves.

Imagine if you injured yourself very badly and you asked someone for painkillers, and they said no they wouldn't help but at least the pain will eventually wear off. True or not, that would hardly be comforting? You have done the verbal equivalent.

Do you do these helpful things when SIL isn’t there? Like when your brother has the kids and SIL is out?

That doesn't happen much, but yes, I'm more comfortable telling my brother because he doesn't get offended

"I can't imagine I would ever be like this when someone is trying to help me !"

You quite literally are, right in this thread. Posters are giving you well-intentioned advice about how you can be kinder to your SIL and upset her less often. Many of those posters have been in her shoes and know exactly how hard it is for her and what kind of "help" or "advice" is not helpful or feels like criticism.

You could listen and have the chance to improve your relationship with her, but instead you're choosing to argue about how she and everyone trying to explain to you how she feels are wrong, that you and your mum are right and SIL is ungrateful, oversensitive and a neglectful and inadequate parent.

Why did you post if you don't want well-intentioned advice? What are you hoping for your relationship with her in the future? That she will magically see that you and your mum know better than her how to look after her children and she should just keep quiet and let you take over?