To think the parents of children who are in childcare would like to see them more often?

[tori32]

I CM and have several sets of parents who finish work early on many occasions who never collect their child early. I know I am paid and it does not bother me in the slightest to look after them for their agreed hours, I just feel sorry for the child because they are missing out on this extra time with parents who work full time.

I was a working mum for 3 months (as in not CM) but always collected dd early when I finished early because I wanted to spend time with her. AIBU?

it is easy to challenge something and say it is not the right thing, when you don;t have to use it.. you have your DH to look after your DD. many women do not have that option, nor the option of family.so full time childcare is the only option to allow them to keep a roof over their heads.

again, you are unable to see outside of your own narrow ideal and viewpoint.

what if your DH was taken ill, god forbid , and could not take care of your child and could not work? would you give up your job and all that entailed rather than use full time child care? life is not always as we would hope it to be, or like it to be. best to see the shades of grey i think

anyway, am off out !

enjoy your evening, ladies.

NiceTry, my apology for making that assumption.

Can you apologise for assuming that the choice you have made for your family must be right for all?

Or even possible for all?

Alfiesbabe - 2 in school, one at pre-school, one at home who attends parent and toddler group twice a week.

I so disagree with your Nicetry. I attended full time nursery from babyhood so have personal experience. My experience is a positive one. I could write more I details, but my DH has just made a pizza which looks rather nice, but I just wanted to post that a child's experience of childcare is not necessarily a negative one.

Nicetry - maybe what Spicemonster was referring to was the luxury of choice.
I have the option to be a SAHM - so in a sense I have that 'luxury'. However, I have always worked, part time when my children were little and full time once they were older. For all sorts of reasons. In essence, because I believe it's good for them to see both parents having fulfulling, interesting and useful careers. Also I don't want to waste my years of training and spend half my life in boring jobs because I've not kept up my professional skills. And because I know my children have been fantastically well cared for and had a lot of enjoyment when they've been in childcare. In fact, I wouldnt have been able to afford the nursery they attended if I havent worked, and I know it gave them a really good grounding.
So please stop this nonsense that people only use childcare as second best. We don't.

I see no need to defend my choice to go to work on the basis that I have to. In fact, since I returned to work my dh was made redundant and now works for himself so our financial situation became less stable than previously so it's probably just as well that I did return. But at the time I returned, we could probably have managed if I had stayed at home.

I chose to go back to work part time partly for my own sake because I realised that I just did not want to give it up entirely. I also realised that I would not want to work full time while my dd is small and hope never to go back full time if I can help it. I'm glad to have been able to make the choice that suits me - both to return to work and to do so part time.

NiceTry, you have not "hit a nerve" with me. You have just pissed me off by trying to suggest that using childcare is a poor second choice - it is not for me or my dd.

For me, the luxury lies in being able to choose whether or not to return to work.

Alfiesbabe - we'll just have to agree to disagree!

I posted on this thread early on and have been lurking ever since it has really bugged me at times and so have felt the need to find some proper evidence about maternal working
here is an abstract from work undertaken by the avon longitudinal study it is interesting for a number of reasons but feel free to read some scientific evidence based on large numbers of children not on anecdotal individual experience

I don't agree a mother's care 24/7 is best even for under 3s. I think mothres who believe they are best are fooling themselves. Who has decided they are so great - the best person on the planet to do all those continuous hours of nappy changing etc?

We never used a nursery but our first nanny lived out and stayed 10 years and I really don't think having a lot of mother input, farther input (he's a teacher) and nanny input did them any harm at all. In fact I think they did better for it because they saw different people and learned more whilst still very firmly bonded and loved by all those adults in their lives. (And the oldest are 23, 21 and 19 now so lots of hard evidence of them doing well because both parents worked full time).

Fantastic link, andie. In my case, this corroborates what I observe in my own child. Thanks for posting that.

spicemonster - once again no mention of the judgements made by WOHM on SAHM and there have been plenty of those on this thread.

WOHM are in the majority on this thread. Why are you all so desperate to prove that your way is the best? Why does it bother you all SO much that some of us believe that children are best cared for by their parents? Are you really so insecure with your choices?

I also dont think my DH can parent my children as well as I do. He would be the first to agree with that as well. He has a great relationship with them but he works very long hours and would not know where to start. He is grateful for me take the main responsibility for childcare. He regularly tells me that it is great not to have to worry about his kids because they are getting the best care possible. I may have issues with my self esteem somewhere, who doesnt? but they are certainly not tied up with being a mother. I am good at it so I choose to make that the focus of my life just now.

I am so tired as being described as smug because I am happy with the choices I made regarding my children. If you are all so unhappy with the choices you make for your kids and their care then change it. Dont keep slagging off those of us who have found what works for us. Find what works for you and get on with it - caring for your kids or finding other suitable care for them, whatever is right for you and your situation. Happy does not equal smug in my book, unless you are quite bitter.

Can I just add something else, with the benefit of experience now that my three dcs are in their teens?
Whenever DH was looking after the children when they were little, he didn't do things the same way as I did. He was messy and pretty disorganised, the children usually wore a, shall we say, 'interesting' clothing combination if he got them dressed. Meal times were a bit hit and miss (he'd usually forget until they said 'Oi dad, feed us!) and then he'd have a manic session in the kitchen with the kids all chipping in. Oh and the day he drove to work with baby number 1 in the back of the car because he forgot to drop her at the CM has gone down in family folk lore.
However, quite a few years down the line, he has the most fantastic relationship with our kids, particularly eldest dd. (She who was left in the back of the car!). They have the best relationship I've ever seen between a dad and a teenage girl (and I know quite a few teens, being a teacher). They choose to go out together to the cinema/for a meal etc. They talk about life, love, politics,periods everything.
Maybe some of you anxious mums like NiceTry need to humble yourselves a bit and believe that other people might be able to enrich your kids lives too.

Was a bit shocked at the link actually. Particulary at this staement:

There are negative effects only for the relatively unusual group of children whose mothers
return to full-time work before they are eighteen months old. The magnitude of these effects
is small, and only 15% of mothers do go back this early.

That seems quite low to me, I would have expected it to much higher.

panic it is only 3 years old so quite recent in academic trems and the sample is 7000 so large therfore my conclusion is that it is a representative valid study

viggoswife, I have got to disagree with you. Not about how you have chosen to bring up your kids but in your total failure to see that those whom you are posting "against" are not claiming to be unhappy with the choices we have made. I've read the whole damn thread and that just isn't what is happening.

No-one is slagging you off, not at this stage anyway, for having found what works for you. I am, and I guess the others also, are just suggesting that you (and NiceTry et all) stop making the assumption that because we haven't made the same choice as you that we must be unhappy with it. I am not trying to argue that my way is best for anyone except me. Stop trying to argue that your way is best for anyone except you.

well said highwater

people have not been saying they are unhappy with their choice but the implication from some posters is that they must be to argue for it

the study I mention clealy shows that there is only a very small detrimental effect in mothers returning to full time work and the group it affects most is children who are advantaged where high quality paid care is not used
in fact what the study shows is that for children from disadvantaged families their outcomes are the same whether they are at home or not so the argument that small children are better cared for by their mothers is in fact not true in all cases

what i would like to know (going back to the opening statement) how much free time is a mother or father allowed without being deemed a poor parent? This question is aimed at those who disagree with the choices of the parents in the op.

what strikes me after reading thru this very long thread is that the mums who work who keep saying they are happy with their choices and please don't judge them is that they seem to like getting their choices reinforced by other working mums, and lots of and shared, as if they somehow need the back up of others in their position,(which is the majority on this thread)

seems to me a bit of "we're right" and back slapping going on

I'll read that article now but just wanted to say that I don't judge anyone for staying at home with their children. Or for going out to work. It's your life, they're your kids, you make the choice that works best for your family. What I was trying to say (and badly it seems) is that saying that all children are better off being cared for full-time by their mothers is making a huge assumption about a) children and b) mothers. Not all children are the same, not all mothers are the same.
It is the smugness of the assumption that what is right for you is right for everyone that gets my goat.

No MsHighwater you are right in saying that no one is claiming to be unhappy with the choices they have made. I didnt say that. I am saying from the level of emotion on this thread that people sound very defensive of their choices and if you are comfortable with them, why would you be made so angry by anothers point of view.

Actually if you have read the whole thread you would see that I have been slagged off for being a SAHM and been accused of being smug more times than I can count. I dont assume that people are unhappy because they have not made the same choice as me but many are assuming that I am smug because of my choices. I dont think my way is right for anyone but me. Please tell me any point in any of my posts where I have tried to argue that my way should be someone elses way. I havent. I have put my view forward that I believe children are happier being cared for by their parents. At no point have I tried to force anyone else to act upon it. I just think it and will continue to do so. I dont much care what anyone else chooses to do regarding childcare. Like I keep on saying I am happy/smug with my own choices.

Mrs Highwater - not saying you are unhappy with your choice, not saying that at all. You are obviously very happy with your choice and are defending it fiercely!

I'm happy with the choices we made for our family. And generally speaking, I don't care what other families do, as long as it's not abusive.

DH is fabulous with our children and has an excellent relationship with all three of our children. Yes, he does things differently to me, but different does not mean inferior.

As a mum of older children, I would also agree that my children need me more now than they've ever done.

Is there a study showing 'a small detrimental effect' on children who are cared for in the home by their parents?