To think the parents of children who are in childcare would like to see them more often?

[tori32]

I CM and have several sets of parents who finish work early on many occasions who never collect their child early. I know I am paid and it does not bother me in the slightest to look after them for their agreed hours, I just feel sorry for the child because they are missing out on this extra time with parents who work full time.

I was a working mum for 3 months (as in not CM) but always collected dd early when I finished early because I wanted to spend time with her. AIBU?

I?ve read this whole blardy thread and it?s taken me farking hours so I cannot not post.

I recently went on a Female Leadership course here in Holland, where working mothers are still frowned on (if you a) give birth in hospital, b) have a caesarean, c) don?t breastfeed and d) go back to work then you are literally the spawn of the devil: unfortunately if I have children then I will end up having to tick all those boxes, for medical reasons before you ask). So anyway, the Female Leadership course. Designed to get women to stay in work after having children, partly for the country?s economic purposes of being able to fill the gap of all those baby boomers retiring in the next few years. Plus the whole diversity thing: a team of 10 balding, middle-aged men will make worse decisions than a diverse group consisting of men/women/ethnic majority/ethnic minority etc etc etc. (I?m so with Xenia on these issues. But that?s a tangent.) The course also, more importantly, underlined for me all the reasons why I would go back to work: being JaneHH and not just Mummy, intellectual fulfillment, keeping my place on the career ladder, paying the mortgage etc etc etc.

I am in awe of working mums who manage to combine everything ? I?m busy enough without children. (And I am NOT saying that sahm?s AREN?T busy, I just don?t have any experience of that so can?t comment.) Keep it up, wohm?s, and don?t let mealy-mouthed employees put you off. Working mums are defending their position here so emotionally not only because they?re being attacked but also because working mothers are still not ?the norm? (the fact that ?working fathers? isn?t a term that's bandied around is proof of that). In our mothers? generation (early 70s I mean) they had to give up work when they got married, let alone got pregnant ? and I don?t think we?ve come THAT far since then. Until men work part-time and do half of the household chores then we cannot say that the fight is over.

Anyway, that Female Leadership course. We all had to ?sign up? to a pact at the end of the course, NOT to slag off other women?s choices. We are our worst enemy, ladies, not men and not the system. FFS let people make their own life decisions (none of us has it easy) and if you don?t ?understand? other people?s life choices then don?t post in AIBU. Ask the question neutrally in Chat or Style or whatever. And don?t sit and slag off your employers, Tori, for providing you with work, you hypocrite!!!

Looks like the course had the desired effect, JaneHH. Well done!

Oh ffs. only read the op. i bet this kicked off big time. posting a thread like this is just asking for trouble. YABextremelyU, can't express in words how much so!

Oh I didn't need any persuading, MsHighwater... I've always thought this. The course was just fantastic confirmation of all that.

But erm I've actually lost count of who's on which side. Am now not sure if you're taking the piss

Too bloody right JaneHH, I don't care what anyone else does with regards to their childcare/household management, if the OP wants to work, or not its nothing to me, but I can't help taking exception to being told that my dearly loved child is to be pitied because I work, for my own selfish stupid reasons.

Go JaneHH!!! Yay!!!!

NO! not taking the piss at all. I admire you for bucking what appears to be the trend where you live.

Again, I have yet to read in my own post where I said that parents should not work. I have also no idea where the notion came from that I expect anyone to spend 24/7 with their child . I also want to know where I posted that sending children to nursery/childcare was a bad decision. I DIDN'T.
My origional question was why do people not collect dcs after finishing work if they leave early on a regular basis. I also said that I understand that occasionally it is nice/necessary to have time to yourself, however, it would also be nice for the mindees to get a surprise early pickup and to do something nice with parents.
My point is that I am working f/t all be it from home. I am out with mindees and dd doing activities in the AM and go to the park/do art and craft pm plus school runs.
I don't get me time until dd goes to bed, which due to being organised is no later than 7pm. My last mindee goes at 1715 most days even though only contracted until 1700.
I appreciate I should have been more specific in the op. All but 1 mindee parent work no more than 5 mins from mine and 10 mins from tesco/town. My point is that I also know what time they leave work due to the closeness of the community. I also know that they do not do child related activities over weekends through conversation, so this saving myself for 'quality' time with dc is just absolute trash.

Oh I'm English living in Holland so can get away with more than the locals SO can't claim to bucking the trend, unfortunately...

OK slight exaggeration, there are SOME working mothers here in Holland (but hardly any full-time) but this country is actually waaaaay behind the rest of Europe in "feminist matters", ahem. It used to be way ahead but then stagnated - unfortunately the Dutch haven't realised that yet.

Did you know you have to fight to get pain killers during childbirth in this country? And if you want to give birth in hospital then you have to have a special reason?!?!?!?!

Enough of a hijack. As you were. The age-old SAHM / WOHM argument. Let's LEAVE EACH OTHER ALONE!!!

I had a FT WOHM mum with a proper career and everything. I think it was the best upbringing I could possibly have. She spent plenty of time with us when she was around but didn't have to do all the boring crap and deal tantrums. I plan to give DD the same opportunity.

The only thing which pissed me off about the whole thing was that I was at a school educating women to have careers and girls aged under 15 weren't allowed to travel home on their own without a responsible adult - how is that compatible with more women having careers? Anyway, tangent. Yes YABVU and hypocritical and I agree that NT must be a troll or feel sorry for her as she is clearly very miserable. Now off to drink more wine.

You don't like some of your mindees parents very much do you Tori

I didnt realise that toddlers could tell the time!!!!

tori I think people have been reallu unfair to you - and got very defensive about the fact they work and pay for childcare - I cm too, and without working parents we would be without jobs too, so how could we possible judge them ?
But i do understand whta you are saying, and you were probably thinking of particular children in your care. I have minded children whose parents have finished early, taken days off, and still sent them, and tbh I have felt sorry for those children. I donot judge the parent as we do not know the reasons behind their decisions, however, as a cm you do get very close to the children and just feel sorry for them at times as you know the person they really want at the end of the day is their mum or dad.
This is not to make working parents feel guilty - I am a working parent, I cm while one of my dc is at school and one attends nursery three days a week when I know she would rather be with me. BUt I know she needs preparing for school next yr. So hopefully the nursery staff don't judge me for sending her there when I cm !
But come on people, tori was not having a go at working mums, just feeling a bit sorry for kids in her care who she knows would have loved their mum/dad to pick them up early, thats all.

tori, it doesn't matter really - it became an interesting thread, so I think people were glad you posted it.

I suppose the answer is that women are just like you -want a bit of free time whenever they can get it even if that's just to put their feet up.

Holland doesn't sound as advanced as France or the UK even, never mind Scandinavia.

tori32, you have to be naive to imagine that what you said would not come across as a criticism of parents working - you were talking about people choosing to spend time away from their kids when they don't need to.

It also remains the case that it is NONE of your business what the parents of your mindees do during the time they are paying YOU to look after their children.

That's something I meant to comment on as well. Toddlers can't tell the time. The surprise Tori mentions is from the p.o.v of an adult, I don't think the children would see it like that. And before some clever clogs steps in, I don't mean to extend it to say they cold just as well be left in childcare for 24/24 etc etc. Just referring to the surprise element.

tori
i think you might appreciate dropping a day yourself?
not meant unkindly.
having a little "me" time yourself perhaps?

Jane- I think Holland sounds FANTASTIC
Tori- I said it last night and I said it again- I think you have been misrepresented here- some other posters haven't helped.
Nevermind, eh it's only the internet

chankins, as a cm, how do you know this? "... just feel sorry for them at times as you know the person they really want at the end of the day is their mum or dad."

Presumably they DO go home to their mum or dad at the end of the day? Just not early enough for you.

BTW, I send my dcs to ft nursery and I don't subscribe to the belief that children need to attend nursery in prep for school. Take your dd out, you are allowed to.

Hi Xenia (may I say how often I agree with your posts despite what many others may say about them [grovel grovel]) Finally we "meet"

Sweden is the role model for all countries when it comes to childcare. (Agreeing with the Swedish model or not is the main dividing line here in NL!) As far as I know: free childcare for all and -just as importantly- the social expectation that you DO take your child to it to get all the social benefits out of learning to play with other children. Or put another way, working mothers do not get slagged off for working full-time with the children in the creche 5 days a week. If THAT'S not female emancipation then I don't know what is.

Chankins - so you send you child to nursery knowing full well that someone else feels sorry for them not spending time with their mum? How very odd. You do it so she has a better chance at school next year. Pushing her so soon? Easy this judgemental thing. I should do it more often.

The women I know who give a shit about this sort of thing don't have much between their ears.

If you aren't very bright, you need to keep inventing AIBU type scenarios to keep your life interesting to you, I think.

Other, brighter people have more interesting things going on in their heads.

Think on.

MrsR: fantastic if you like all that but women should at least have the CHOICE as far as I'm concerned! Otherwise we're right back in 1908 (as someone else mentioned earlier).

They can in relation to the times which things happen i.e before or after lunch/snack/school run.
Anyway I guess my conclusion is that most people think it is unreasonable to be expected to spend more time with their children than outside working/ childcare hours because it is a)paid for anyway b) your right as a parent c) child prefers cm/nusery etc d) need space and me time to do chores which you can't do with toddlers in tow.
I guess I must be a freak of nature to have always wanted to be with my dd when not at work , to be able to simultaneously look after dd and do chores, find time when she had a nap/sleep (evenings ) to go and get hair done/ shop at the weekend. Oooh and the all important me time every evening 7-10pm. Very tired so leaving thread, as Shoshe kindly pointed out I'm 8mths pg and hands have swollen with all the typing

Night all

what rubbish blueshoes - you are not listening.
I totally respect my parents need/want to work but as you are not a cm you do not experience what tori is talking about. You can;t help feel abit sorry for them ! Excuse us for being human albiet a bit soppy !
I know this because children have bloody well told me ! They can speak you know ? Children of a certain age know fully well what their parents are doing , what their days off arfe etc !
I am not talking about babies and toddlers who f course have no sense of time.
I do think children need some form of pre-school to prepare them for school actually. I would send mine even if I was not working myself. They need time away from parents at some tpoint. My dh was never sent to playshcool and can distinctly remember being left at school on the first day and crying non stop.
I don't want to take her out as she now enjoys it, and needs her independence from me.
Stop thinking tori and me now are having a go at you for working or having free time !
WE are noot, we need working parents or we woldn't have a job. It is not a judgement on the parents to say you feel sorry for a child who you know would have liked to be picked up early !