To intervene in DS's relationship?

[AlyssaHasAChaaaaild]

DS and his girlfriend are both 20. Met in 6th form and have dated ever since, now both at different Unis and keeping things going long distance.

She is from a strict religious background and made clear at the start there would be no sex before marriage. 2 years in they are being a bit physical but not even close to or considering having sex.

Her mum has got wind of this and is furious, and blames DS for "corrupting" her. There is no question around consent, it's just the religious principle that she can't accept that her daughter would do anything physical before marriage and so he is to blame.

Her mum has said the relationship can only continue if he agrees to go and have a sit down chat with her so she can explain why she is angry with him and set some ground rules. Girlfriend seems to agree this is a reasonable idea, DS is pretty horrified at the prospect but feels if he doesn't agree then the relationship will end.

I'm trying to bite my tongue because I know he adores her and I have seen how happy they are together. But FFS this seems insane to me and I want to tell him to run for the hills. I feel like even if he does this it's only a matter of time before the mum pipes up and interferes about something else.

TBH it's the girlfriend I'm most angry with as I feel like she has thrown him to the wolves and is letting this happen. I think she is a bit scared of her mum but that doesn't excuse her letting DS get painted as the bad guy.

But if I say this to DS am I being interfering too?

The point about getting married to establish herself as an adult to escape the overbearing DM is a very good one. She is at uni. She needs to be shown that there are other options.

C of E is one of the most relaxed Christian churches going. How does the mum have these views? I was expecting you to say a completely different religion to be honest.

Thats abusive are you sure you weren't groomed into that position?

Its not really a relationship is it, with her mother calling the shots. At 20 they are entitled to privacy and to make their own decisions . In my opinion if this relationship" continues down the marriage path I think your son will be setting himself up for a life of misery.
I would sit him down and have a talk with him about how he sees his future and does he really want the spectre of a controlling MIL hanging over him

Would recommend this approach as well

Ohhhh now it makes more sense.
The umbilical cord has never been cut, has it? (The GF that is)
She cannot move away from her mum or grow up and have a separate life. How very very sad .
Tell him not to accept any kool-aid.

From your last comment, its clear mum is trying to control her DD, the lack of friends and socialising, the DD seems to have little independence or ability to be independent, how did your son meet her?

this is one of those damned if you do damned if you dont op it really is. however, if it were my son I would ask him if he wanted me to be present because this could turn out to be a really bullying and unpleasant situation that could really affect his mental health in the future. if he said no, that would be fine but if yes then I would say to the girl and mother that this is the situation. allowing one person outside of the relationship to dictate terms like this does not bode in the least bit well for the future does it.

Equally could say if she loved him she'd save him the embarrassment of him having to face her mum giving him the birds and bee's talk and admit that she's OK and agreeing with a bit of rumpy pumpy.

I know of a girl who was forced to marry at 18 because she had sex with her boyfriend. It happens.

I agree with this.

I am also curious how the mil came to know about the intimacies of their relationship? Was she told by her dd willingly or did she bully it out of her? That's the piece I would be most concerned about, how much does this woman involve herself in the relationship and how much of what your son says and does with his girlfriend in private is told to her?

I’d be seriously worried that when they eventually succumb and have sex (when not if), that the girlfriend will later panic and then cry Rape to absolve herself of responsibility. She’s already pinned the blame squarely on his shoulders for their current level of intimacy.

If it was my son, I’d be working hard to split them up by encouraging him to get more involved in University activities and meeting new people. I’d also point out that if he stays with her and even marries her, the mum is going to find new ways to interfere in their lives for the next 40 years and unfortunately, his girlfriend seems OK with this.

C of E but don't go to church? yeah the woman is a dingbat. This isn't about religion, its about control, if it wasn't sex it would be something else as the poor sod who eventually ends up having DC with the daughter will discover. Over-involved with never ending rules and belittlement to maintain control.

Why has the mother even called a meeting if very little has even happened between them? And who is supplying the mother with information about their relationship at all if not the DD?

Please don't let your DS go to a preemptive emasculation from this woman without some straight talk from you first. Your poor DS is in a relationship with the over-involved mother as much as the DD and he needs to have that pointed out at least. Personally I'd tell him to run for the hills.

I would have a practical discussion about how just loving someone is sometimes not enough, if there are huge gaps between a big ticket item he needs to consider if they are really compatible for a long term relationship. The big ticket here is not sex, it is religion and her family thinking they have a say in adults private relationships to the point he is summoned to discuss his adult sex life with a grown women. In his teens and early 20s your relationships should be care free (if possible) and between both of them - neither of them are possessions of her mother or the religion.

He needs to consider if it has longevity, does he want to be involved in that religion for the rest of his life because she comes with that package, does he want in-laws that think it is okay to stick their noses into their life, does he want pressure to raise future kids the same way etc. If he doesn't see it in his future then it is better for both of them to look elsewhere for a more suitable partner.

Plant the seeds and let him make his own decisions. Which includes whether he is going to be lectured about his private sex life with a religious fanatic.

I can only presume “treat her like a wife” means they get to do the really kinky stuff.

OR - that he expects her to wash his socks an underpants and bring him his dinner on a tray while he watches the rugby.

Please don't let your DS go to a preemptive emasculation from this woman without some straight talk from you first

Agree with the poster who said this.

Hmm... Might be wild speculation on my part, but I wonder does the mum regret getting married so young, and maybe even felt like this before her wedding but felt she had to go ahead to 'legitimise' the fact she'd already lost her virginity?

It might be worth pointing out to your DS that sometimes parents try to stop their children "repeating" their own mistakes and lose sight of the fact that their adult children are not just reliving their parents' lives? This could be one of many things colouring her viewpoint.

(FWIW I don't think any of this in any way excuses GF's mum's behaviour, or indeed GF's own! Imo they are in the wrong here. Well done to you though for giving careful consideration to how to support your son in the best way and for raising him to both respect GF's religious beliefs and feel able to confide in you about such a personal matter - wish I'd had a mum like you at his age!)

The mother isn't religious. She spend go to church, and she thinks Jesus is someone who hates people.
I would be sending my ds off on holiday somewhere with some good pals and a packet of condoms, as I would not want them to stay together as adults.

My BFF was, by her father. But this was back in the early '70s.

@AlyssaHasAChaaaaild

Frankly, I'd simply tell my son "You don't have to do this, and frankly I think it's a big red flag as far as your future with XX goes. If her mother will interfere with your 'intimate' life, she will also interfere with every other aspect of it. What if after Uni you and XX want to live in <far flung place> and her mother doesn't
want XX to leave? What if she decides she doesn't like your chosen career? Or if you should decide you don't want children? I'm not saying you should break with XX, just that you need to think very carefully about how much influence her mother has on her, and by extension, on you".

I’d be seriously worried that when they eventually succumb and have sex (when not if), that the girlfriend will later panic and then cry Rape to absolve herself of responsibility. She’s already pinned the blame squarely on his shoulders for their current level of intimacy

Exactly

Doubtless we'll be flamed for daring to suggest that not every accusation of rape is valid, and in normal circumstances I wouldn't mention it ... but these aren't normal circumstances, and the risk could be very real

Of course the whole thing could be solved by the GF keeping her mother at a suitable adult distance from her relationships, but it appears that's not an option and therein lies the problem

This is such a tricky one. However, I think you should encourage him to talk to you about it as much as possible and use you as a sounding board. Eg, to think through what the future might look like if he were to marry this girl and, if so, is that really the type of future he wants to himself and any future children?

C of E but don't go to church? yeah the woman is a dingbat. This isn't about religion, its about control

Totally agree.

I'm C of E - my faith is very important to me, too, and I rarely miss a service. I don't believe that you have to go to church to be a Christian, but I do believe that if you are a Christian you will want to go to church if you are physically able, at least for the big feasts and services eg Christmas and Easter.

I suspect that they have their own loony take on Anglicanism.

There is more emphasis placed on fidelity than on "purity", TBH. I know vicars who "live in sin" and although it is mutely frowned upon it is accepted that these days, these things happen.

Whether they have sex before they are married is their business - they are fully-functioning adults.

How did her mother even find out they had "done stuff" anyway? The girl must have told her - why?

*mostly, not mutely (though often mutely, too - but not always 😉)

I worry that G has already said something to her mum that's misleading re consent which has provoked this?

Poor DS had a mega grilling from me because of course I'm only hearing his version of events and I was concerned something bad had happened.

But after giving me a lot more detail than any mum really wants to hear I was almost giggling because seriously very little has actually happened at all physically.

And yet the mum is "angry"? So there's a big question over what G has told her mum, not to mention why she has started this conversation?

I’d step back a bit here OP and just listen - the more he talks the more he’ll be able to work out this situation for himself. Letting someone talk without interruption until they run dry, and then some is very powerful (google active listening)

I am wondering if the physical activities are as consensual as he thinks. If she is confiding in mum, and ducking behind her mum, she may be in a different headspace than he realises. That might be because of the cultural or religious gap.

In fairytales the hero has to fight the dragon to save the princess, and it’s a metaphor for transition from being a boy, under the thumb of adults, to stepping up as a man and facing down “dragons” like your parents in law.