To intervene in DS's relationship?

[AlyssaHasAChaaaaild]

DS and his girlfriend are both 20. Met in 6th form and have dated ever since, now both at different Unis and keeping things going long distance.

She is from a strict religious background and made clear at the start there would be no sex before marriage. 2 years in they are being a bit physical but not even close to or considering having sex.

Her mum has got wind of this and is furious, and blames DS for "corrupting" her. There is no question around consent, it's just the religious principle that she can't accept that her daughter would do anything physical before marriage and so he is to blame.

Her mum has said the relationship can only continue if he agrees to go and have a sit down chat with her so she can explain why she is angry with him and set some ground rules. Girlfriend seems to agree this is a reasonable idea, DS is pretty horrified at the prospect but feels if he doesn't agree then the relationship will end.

I'm trying to bite my tongue because I know he adores her and I have seen how happy they are together. But FFS this seems insane to me and I want to tell him to run for the hills. I feel like even if he does this it's only a matter of time before the mum pipes up and interferes about something else.

TBH it's the girlfriend I'm most angry with as I feel like she has thrown him to the wolves and is letting this happen. I think she is a bit scared of her mum but that doesn't excuse her letting DS get painted as the bad guy.

But if I say this to DS am I being interfering too?

I wouldn’t want that for my son either, OP. If they have kids together one day, I assume they’ll be brought up with the same strictness - and same interference from her parents - due to the transmission of these values arguably. But I wouldn’t want to explicitly say anything to the effect of “run for the hills” in case he’s then resentful towards you and no longer opens up (sounds like you two have a great relationship so I wouldn’t want to compromise that). But I would want to briefly discuss what his future could look like as they sound fairly serious.

These relationships can work though. My DH is devout and has relatives who waited until marriage - all women, unsurprisingly… (No male relatives. 🙄 I pointed out the double standard, of course, which he also sees to be fair.) But I have made it very clear that I don’t find it commendable as his relatives do (no disrespect to anyone who waits of course!), and that the same will not be expected of our daughter one day. So I guess what I’m trying to say is that I think relationships like this can only work if you are able to maintain your own strong sense of values and not be dictated to. This family sound like they’re taking a steamroller approach though, by contrast, and have no sense of mutual respect for your son, who, by the sounds of it, has been a good, loving partner to their daughter.

I really really worry about the consent issue, he's a 20 yo lad and maybe he's pushed her more than he thinks?

Of course I can never be sure as I only have his version of events, but over the last 3 days we have talked and talked and talked about everything in such detail and it really doesn't seem like he's been too pushy, especially bearing in mind how little intimacy there has actually been!

But of course that's not to say that G doesn't feel some sort of pressure indirectly. I think she is a bit confused, guilty, has nobody to talk to - maybe tried talking to her mum to clear her head and it backfired?

How would DS feel if you showed him this thread?
There is lots for him to think about.
Poor lad, who wants 'MIL' in the bedroom with them?!

The more you write the worse it sounds. This is going to be his life for ever, mad mum (mm) controlling her. Your DS is never going to be free of the MM or Jesus. Jesus on his own, fine, but not channelled by MM

I think I'd tell him it's entirely his decision but the hold the Mum has over her daughter is very controlling and very unusual in this case. He runs the risk of getting sucked into the religion and having to abide by it's principles. I'd also say it's not normal to discuss your sex life with your girlfriend's mother. Depending on how he takes that I might add "if I were you I'd run".

OP your latest post he me even more worried.
You clearly have told your son that he must not in any way coerce his GF and he has patiently and repeatedly explained to you that he hasn't.
Stop making excuses for the GF and start supporting your son.
You need to tell your son that if his girlfriend has lied about consent then she is dangerous.

sorry - has me.

@AlyssaHasAChaaaaild Just get him to remind the mother (In a very authoritative voice) about 1 Timothy 2:12 "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet."

He could then suggest that her mother ought to sell her to him as a slave wife for six years as per Exodus 21:7-11. This does only allow for a man to make the sale though, so that might be a problem.

If she's not keen on that, then he could just go with the other option which is Deuteronomy 22:28-29 where he could always just rape her, pay her father 50 shekels of silver and marry her (but as her father is dead, there's nobody to pay, so he's got her for free).

Maybe ask the mother then if she would prefer that he treats her daughter with love, kindness and respect; never pressuring her to do anything that she didn't want to; or would she rather he used a centuries old text written by primitive goatherders and edited by misogynistic paedophiles as a handbook for morals to live by?

I think it’s mad for you to invite yourself along to a meeting , given that your position is that it’s none of anyone else’s business. So it seems that your DS has several options

1. say no to the meeting and his Gf will probably end it.
2. say yes to the meeting, then decide based on the meeting that it’s not going to work and end the relationship.
3. say yes to the meeting and then come to some agreement with Gf about where their relationship goes from there. Who knows, there might be come sort of compromise that could be agreed . It might work out or it might end some time in the future.

I think it’s really important at that you let him make his own decision. Otherwise you will be the one who split them up, not her mum.

He knew at the beginning when he started dating her that she was from a different culture , he needs to own that decision. I suspect like many young people he thought he could change her beliefs to be more aligned with his own.

But of course things change and he needs to be adult enough to decide where he wants to go from here .

Personally I think that information is a good thing. The more knowledge he has about his Gf, her relationship with her mother , their family beliefs etc the better placed he is to make an informed decision. So I think he should meet the mother and listen hard to her opinions . He doesn’t have to say much at all , just that he will go away and think about what she said.

If he’s not confident , practice some neutral responses / comments with him.

It won’t harm him to hear someone else’s opinion, especially the mother of the girl he loves.

i know MANY people who married into a different culture ( and then divorced ) and most of them wish that they had known more at the start and not gone into it blind. So trying to stop the fact finding meeting is NOT a good idea IMHO.

😂

I think that’s a very bad idea, many posters have made hugely disrespectful comments about this vulnerable young woman and her culture /beliefs . And that of millions of Christians around the world.

not the best basis for wise and sensible advice.

He knew at the beginning when he started dating her that she was from a different culture , he needs to own that decision. I suspect like many young people he thought he could change her beliefs to be more aligned with his own.

I wouldn't expect C of E to be so very different - I say this as someone who went to C of E school and was exposed to religion and who sent her own kids to a C of E at one point.

Also going on about religion - C of E - but not regularly joining by regular church going is odd.

It also doesn't appear as if the DS here has been anything but respectful and accommodating.

I do agree though this should be raising red flags top OP DS.

So GF's mum is a hypocrite as well as everything else 🙄 She sounds awful.

As someone who was brought up in a very intense and restrictive religion with the same beliefs and sentiments as this one, I would not want my child to be involved in a serious relationship with anyone who had this background. Its incredibly controlling and if this is the way GF's mum is behaving now, I don't think she'll get any better and if he did choose to stay with GF I'd be worried about what his life will be like.

You say that they work well together despite the difference in their religious beliefs, but do they really work that well if he is now being pressured to sit and listen to a sermon from her mum about beliefs that he doesn't share? He respects his GF's beliefs and religion, but she's not respecting his lack of belief if she's forcing him to be part of an uncomfortable and inappropriate conversation with her mother just because she has these beliefs.

I really feel for you as this is wrong on so many levels. I agree you have to be careful about interfering but I also agree with others that if your son is coming to you for advice about this, there's nothing wrong with sharing your concerns re: control, inappropriate behaviour etc and ask him to think about what the future might look like for him if he allows his GF and her mother to basically force him into things like this.

The mother sounds awful and I'd be really concerned about your son being controlled by her, the effect on any future children etc

From personal experience of an organised, restrictive religion I would be telling DS to think very carefully about whether he wants to be involved in this. It might be fine if his GF respected his lack of religion and her mother was not controlling her, or even if she could stand up to her mother and make clear that she cannot ask an adult man to come and be lectured and forced to talk about sex, and that her mother cannot control their relationship...but its really concerning that GF isn't willing to do this.

If GF wants to allow herself to be controlled by her mother (and her religion, because I believe that organised religion is by its nature extremely controlling) then that's her choice, but she cannot put this onto your son and ask him to live that life. I'd be concerned that she is taking her mother's side on this, it indicates that she herself is controlled by the religion and, in turn, willing to let this control her relationship. I would gently encourage DS to think about what this means for him, and any potential children he might have with this girl.

The mother sounds like she could potentially be emotionally harmful to children/young people. If she's anything like my own mother she won't think twice about trying to 'educate' young children about God and what he finds sinful (including reference to sex) and won't hesitate to sit her grandchildren down and have the kind of talk you've described. (Although tbf my own mum didn't go as far as subjecting my DB to things like this, as she realised that he was an adult and it wasn't her place to summon him for a lecture!)

Unless GF is able and willing to put boundaries in place, your DS's life could end up being very difficult. I hope he can find a way though this. Best thing you can do is be there for him and gently encourage him to carefully consider all of the above before making a decision about what to do. It has to be his choice, but you can be there to advise and support. Best of luck OP

Millions of Christians around the world don't believe Jesus hates them if they have sex.

Love this 😂

I grew up in CoE church, schools and clubs and almost none of families were anywhere strict like this, it is highly unusual and the two families I knew girls from who may have been as strict as this were totally bonkers and highly questionable as in possible abuse

😂👍🙏

This is tempting!

But the awful thing is, I'm sure somewhere deep down the mum has G's interests at heart but actually she's sort of setting her up to think marriage is some big handover of power to a man.

It's like she's telling her daughter when she gets married she must have sex and do whatever her husband wants. It's so wrong.

This is all a bit intense for a 20 yr old. I’d let him chat to her mum and sooner or later he’ll realise how crazy this is. Just hoping she doesn’t now declare them ‘engaged’ because of the little physical affection they’ve had!

Agree with this. I don't think anything good can come of this. I do feel very sorry for the girl however. Being raised a Jehovah's Witness it was like that for us but worse. Its such a shame she is controlled like she is, but the desire for her to please her mum will also be very strong. I only really got married when I did because I did not want my mother to shun me which she would have been forced to do. It's a very difficult situation.

Agree - and even if the comments were overwhelmingly positive, no-one wants to think that their relationship has been opened to public scrutiny, no matter how anonymous

So neither of them live at home but her mum has a say in things?

She seems to be afraid of her mum & not taking responsibility.

Tbh I'd be worried that he will be accused of coercing her into being "a bit physical".

Perhaps he should tell his GF that he doesn't need to talk to her mum as they will not do anything physical at all in future!

It’s a demand for a conversation. That’s not interfering nor does it warrant the panic and drama being attached to it.

So the mum is deeply religious but doesn't go to church? She sounds to me as though she's deeply controlling and using religion as an excuse. Unless her daughter breaks free, this is going to be ongoing, even if they get married.

@AP5Diva

Don't you think it's a bit much to demand this conversation and specifically proclaim that until this conversation takes place then GF cannot see him?

More importantly don't you think it's alarming that GF is happy to abide by this?

Remember, they are 20, not 15!