To intervene in DS's relationship?

[AlyssaHasAChaaaaild]

DS and his girlfriend are both 20. Met in 6th form and have dated ever since, now both at different Unis and keeping things going long distance.

She is from a strict religious background and made clear at the start there would be no sex before marriage. 2 years in they are being a bit physical but not even close to or considering having sex.

Her mum has got wind of this and is furious, and blames DS for "corrupting" her. There is no question around consent, it's just the religious principle that she can't accept that her daughter would do anything physical before marriage and so he is to blame.

Her mum has said the relationship can only continue if he agrees to go and have a sit down chat with her so she can explain why she is angry with him and set some ground rules. Girlfriend seems to agree this is a reasonable idea, DS is pretty horrified at the prospect but feels if he doesn't agree then the relationship will end.

I'm trying to bite my tongue because I know he adores her and I have seen how happy they are together. But FFS this seems insane to me and I want to tell him to run for the hills. I feel like even if he does this it's only a matter of time before the mum pipes up and interferes about something else.

TBH it's the girlfriend I'm most angry with as I feel like she has thrown him to the wolves and is letting this happen. I think she is a bit scared of her mum but that doesn't excuse her letting DS get painted as the bad guy.

But if I say this to DS am I being interfering too?

I think you can lovingly tell him you think he is in a controlling relationship.

I would urge your ds to seriously rethink this relationship as this will not be the last time that religion or her mother interfere with her life, decisions or choices.

My thoughts exactly.

OK - what about her obligations?

Your DS is not religious. He's accommodating and respecting her beliefs even though he doesn't share them.

With that in mind, why does GF think it's acceptable for Mummy to stamp her feet and summon him for a "chat"? Her DD is the one that has the religious obligations, not your DS. Her DD is the one that has decided to act outside of those beliefs - not your DS.

Her mother is forgetting that your DS is choosing to respect their beliefs; it doesn't mean he is bound by them. He is not obliged to do anything and she has zero rights to make those kinds of demands.

If she pushes for this meeting to happen then I'd insist on being there when it does.

If her Mother thinks she can butt into their relationship AND is likely to place all blame for any behaviours she disagrees with firmly at your DS's feet then I'd make sure I was there to defend him.

It's not necessarily a bad thing for kids to have these conversations but this scenario is incredibly biased! Both the Mother and the GF need to understand that their behaviour has been unfair.

Your son can do better than this.

How would the GF mother feel if you wanted to sit her daughter down and tell her to start putting out?

I think the mother demanding to have 'a chat' is beyond bizarre. The fact the her daughter thinks this is reasonable is a massive red flag. What's next after they get married, monthly consultations on what sex positions are appropriate, what contraception if any is allowed?

Your son should be at university having a blast, not getting pulled into embarrassing conversations that are underpinned by religious dogma by some loopy future MIL.

Yes he is 20 and an 'adult' but he clearly cant see the wood for the trees and a gentle intervention is not a bad idea.

The drama aspect could be coming from your DS and/or the girlfriend, not the mother.

If he goes he needs to be armed with his own answers.

I have no intention of taking advantage of your DD or force her to do anything she doesn't want but our private life is our business nobody else's.

Op just make sure if they are thinking about sex he takes precautions as well as the GF.

How can he even be bothered with this, 20 and can't stay over or have sex with his gf, tell him to get rid. He won't be accepted even if he sticks around if he's the wrong race/religion, so it's completely pointless. He should be enjoying himself dating girls, having relationships as an adult, not acting like he's 15 and needing permission to even see her. He'll look back and regret wasting his time.

She's also been told that if she makes bad choices even if she can justify them to herself Jesus will hate her.

That’s never been the takeaway message from any C of E service I’ve attended

Goodness, her dm sounds more like lunatic fringe than normal CofE. Perhaps that's why they don't go to an actual Church, as it would show how extreme her beliefs are.

Thé CofE stopped being vocal against sex before marriage in the 1960s when attendance started declining.

From my own personal experience, losing my virginity at 14 to a future vicar of 25, they weren't that concerned. He was ordained and still is despite a divorce and remarriage.

I also do not think asking for a conversation regarding their relationship and intentions for the future is interference.

Genuine question, but how is it not interference? The daughter is an adult. The mother getting involved in her adult relationship is, by its very definition, interference, isn't it?

Now, I get that you might think that parental interference in adult relationships is entirely reasonable and justified, and you're entitled to that point of view, but I don't know how you could realistically argue that it doesn't constitute interference. 🤔

Surely what you're actually saying is that you think the mum has a right to interfere?

It's specifically meant to be a chat about sex and boundaries and the fact that sex should only happen in marriage. But if it happens earlier then the mum will consider them to be married and DS will be expected to treat her like a wife.

and will she treat him like a husband and submit to his will, do all the cooking and cleaning and have his pipe and slippers ready when he comes home?

Basically? the gf is being a bit controlling using "if you love me you'll..." and it wouldn't be out of place for you to point this out to him. His decision if he goes to visit the mum. Tell him not to agree with anything, just nod and smile while he is there.

Then he can go away and think if he wants to buy into this batshittery. I mean, I'd want to know what "like a wife" means. And conversely what his "duties" as a "husband" are - like handing over all his wages, supporting her while she is a SAHP to all the babies they'll have? (what is GFs position on contraception, for eg) and so on and so on.

It is always a good idea to keep an eye on where you think you are with your relationship, and where you think it is going vs where the partner thinks it's going.

I wouldn’t say anything. If you want the relationship to end, I think the more chats he has with her mum the better.

Having a conversation & communicating isn’t getting involved or interfering. If it were, then all of us on this thread are guilty of interfering into the OP’s relationship with her DS.

Why does his mother need to be involved in making sure he takes precautions if he has sex, he's 20!!! There doesn't need to be this level of involvement in her son's relationship. I dated/went out with people at uni and never even bothered telling my parents they existed, I can't imagine having my parents this involved in my relationships or sex life, it's weird.

Hello, my apologies for not rtft before posting. But I was like your boyfriends girlfriend - and I want to give you my perspective as an older women looking back.

In church - sex is not private and actually virginity is an unspoken badge of honour and pride..although the purity aspect is aimed mainly at women). You find some of the most controlling people in church.

Because this private knowledge about individuals is public/gossiped about- it is actually a huge violation of boundaries that is presented as both normal and for your own protection.

This violation of boundaries is insipid - actually your son’s girlfriend’s sex life is no one’s business. But her boundaries of what is normal are skewed. She desperately doesn’t want to disappoint her parents or feel the weight of their shame.

Having an adult relationship with her is going to be difficult unless she re-draws boundaries of what is acceptable for her parents to know/comment on. She needs to learn to accept their disagreement and disgust at her life choices.

That’s a big ask. It took me another 20 or so years to being able to reflect and see how unhealthy this ‘protection’ is when developing into an independent adult and how having a healthy regard for my own self is connected to my own wants not God’s, not the churches and not my parents.

You son should definitely not indulge the mother in her own delusion of control.

What's that Taylor Swift line, where her dad is saying "it's supposed to be fun, when you're 21" - or something like that! This isn't going to go well.

Are you being deliberately obtuse now?

They don’t actually go to church but make this all about religion ? Sounds more like pure control to me.
Your ds and gf are both adults, they make their own choices. I’d be more inclined to give the gf info on controlling behaviour than encourage your ds to speak to her mum.

@AlyssaHasAChaaaaild Ugh. My mother was like this, your post brings back some bad memories. She was (still is) a practicing Catholic, she forced myself and my two brothers to attend Mass every Sunday (the minute we left home we stopped and none of us have been in a church since). She was utterly convinced when I was 18 and started dating the guy who would go on to be my first husband (massive mistake) that 'if' we were having sex it was because he'd coerced me into it (of course we were and he hadn't). An attitude I found fucking insulting on so, so, so many levels...however unlike this mother she never actually said anything to my boyfriend about it, and I certainly never discussed my sex life with her... as far as I was concerned, once I was above the age of consent it was none of her business.

All I'd do is remind you son that he and his girlfriend are adults. Adults get to chose who they discuss their sex lives with, and if his girlfriend and his mother can't accept that, it doesn't bode well for the future.

Well you can call it love life then can’t you if you’re going to be so pedantic. But then again people’s love lives don’t actually need to be about love so you’re in a conundrum again. Pray tell what do you think it should be called?

I agree with @Srin. I would be quietly supportive but let him go off and meet the mother and see what happens. If his gf doesn't stand up for him, well I suspect he will realise it isn't worth it.

Good luck though as I would be very sad it it was my son being put in this position.

Let it alone. They are adults and have to sort this for themselves.

IF he decides to meet GFMum to hear her POV (and put his !) then that's a sign of what a strong and determined and loyal young man he is. You should be proud of how you brought him up.

If it all falls apart, then c'est la vie. A learning curve he won't forget.

Hold your horses.

Let's just say. I managed to grit my teeth about numerous GF's while they were still in the running. Because we'd done a good job on the sons their common sense prevailed.

Afterwards, I could let my tongue loose...

I am desperately sad for him and he's sad too as he knows this isn't right.