To intervene in DS's relationship?

[AlyssaHasAChaaaaild]

DS and his girlfriend are both 20. Met in 6th form and have dated ever since, now both at different Unis and keeping things going long distance.

She is from a strict religious background and made clear at the start there would be no sex before marriage. 2 years in they are being a bit physical but not even close to or considering having sex.

Her mum has got wind of this and is furious, and blames DS for "corrupting" her. There is no question around consent, it's just the religious principle that she can't accept that her daughter would do anything physical before marriage and so he is to blame.

Her mum has said the relationship can only continue if he agrees to go and have a sit down chat with her so she can explain why she is angry with him and set some ground rules. Girlfriend seems to agree this is a reasonable idea, DS is pretty horrified at the prospect but feels if he doesn't agree then the relationship will end.

I'm trying to bite my tongue because I know he adores her and I have seen how happy they are together. But FFS this seems insane to me and I want to tell him to run for the hills. I feel like even if he does this it's only a matter of time before the mum pipes up and interferes about something else.

TBH it's the girlfriend I'm most angry with as I feel like she has thrown him to the wolves and is letting this happen. I think she is a bit scared of her mum but that doesn't excuse her letting DS get painted as the bad guy.

But if I say this to DS am I being interfering too?

Bizarre-r still. She was only their age-20 when she conceived her own daughter ha ha

So you don’t know whether the GF actually threw your son under the bus? Or has misled her mother in any way? You are worried she might have done so.

I think it’s important not to jump to conclusions here.

As a result of my mother's religion, I was raised with the belief that once you are married your husband is entitled to sex and as his wife it is your duty to give it to him. Also that sex before marriage and masturbation is a sin and if you do this you are 'defiling' your own body. I was also told by my mother that a blow job is 'the most disgusting thing you can do as a woman, please never do it, you will regret it for the rest of your life'. This was said to me when I was around ten years old. I still have issues around blow jobs as an adult and have to talk myself down from feeling weird/dirty. tbh I have all sorts of issues around sex and relationships and have poor mental health.

I genuinely feel that if your son continued a relationship with this girl and they ended up having children, her mother (if she is anything like mine and she sounds like she is) should be considered a safeguarding risk to any grandchildren. DS would need to be careful about how their relationship was managed, because you can guarantee she will be passing her 'values' down to her grandchildren in the same way she has done with her daughter. They believe it's their duty to educate children about what God expects of them.

How do you know what she has said to her daughter?

Great advice here.

They are adults. So many PPs are infantilising them. OP, you can’t tell him to run, he will do what he wants.

On the face of it the girlfriend sounds very immature and childish, why as a grown woman can she not stand up to her own mother? Unfortunately the GF hasn’t realised that it’s her mother with the problem and until she does (and one day she will), your DS will never be right and always second place. I would be hoping they meet and things fizzle out.

I think you are over-reacting and letting your imagination run wild.
It’s not ideal, but not every parent is rational when it comes to their one and only child. Especially now we know she is a widow and her daughter is all she has in the world.

It can do no harm for your DS to sit and have an adult conversation with her.

I don’t think it is alarming that the GF is happy for her boyfriend and mother to have a conversation with each other, no. I don’t think it is alarming that she has agreed to humour her mother and have the conversation as soon as possible and to not see her boyfriend until they’ve talked.

Many parents are more protective of daughters than they are of sons, and who wouldn’t be when 3 women are killed every week by a current or former boyfriend? You see your son, this mother sees an unknown man.

Comments of a different culture etc aren't accurate, her mother has clearly made up her own standards and is using them to control her DD, an anglican priest has stated here that sex before marriage is not frowned upon and neither would Jesus hate her, this is a nasty twist her DM has come up with.

It’s not new nor an uncommon belief amongst more traditionalist Christians that sex before marriage is a sin. The DM didn’t come up with it like she invented it.

@AP5Diva how many of your boyfriends mums did you discuss your sex life with?

@AP5Diva
I'm unsure which religion encourages controlling and interfering in your adult child's sex life and demanding to quiz their partner.

You all have to remember that you're coming from different baselines. As a religious person, her whole paradigm is different than yours. You can mock the religion and say its weird , but the mum is just doing what she feels right. Someone choosing to have sex before marriage is also a choice - and comes with 'rules' even if it is 'no rules'. Abstaining from sex before marriage is also legitimate and I find it very rude to say 'how could faith dictate their sex life'. Why not? You let certain certain hedonistic principles dictate your sex life? Why can't religion not dictate theirs? The mom is trying to do what she sees best for her daugther. I don't think she wrong, but I do think this relationship will probably not work long term. Your son (and you) are atheist and don't understand their faith. Which specifically calls upon parents to 'help' their children when they see them going off on the wrong path (for them). You're allowed to think its not okay to intervene in your sons relationship and what he does sexually, but equally is her mom allowed to decide.

He needs to have a serious chat to gf about the future. When will they marry if this is the case? Where will they live? What will children if they want them be raised as? How much will her parents have a say in their relationship?

I was married around their age so isn't that extreme idea but they both have to want it and be in same mind

@AP5Diva

Many parents are more protective of daughters than they are of sons, and who wouldn’t be when 3 women are killed every week by a current or former boyfriend? You see your son, this mother sees an unknown man.

The GF's mother is not concerned about her safety. Her concern is solely based on her own religious beliefs and a desire to control her daughter's life.

You also said it's not unreasonable for the GF to want her boyfriend to engage in 'a conversation' with her mother...but this isn't a conversation. It's a lecture, a dressing down, a meeting where DS will be expected to listen while the mother lays down her rules for their (adult!) relationship, what they can and can't do sexually and what she expects of him. It's inappropriate, unhealthy and indicative of a very worrying level of control. If DS was to go to the meeting it would be showing the GF and her mother that he's willing to let himself be controlled. It would be the first step in becoming trapped in a very unhealthy dynamic. So, its really not just 'a conversation'.

Uhmm, really? For the majority of human history sex before marriage (common law or lawfully) was frowned upon. There were no relaible birth control nor DNA testing, so it was in no girl's best interest to sleep around for millenia. SO don't make this a new thing. It's only recently (with birth control) that women have the freedom to sleep around/ or even just sleep with a man before they are sure he will take care of her and any offspring. (ie marriage)

I really pity your poor kids if you have any, if you think that "demanding a conversation" with another adult about something that is categorically not your business is acceptable behaviour.

It would be fine to request a conversation. It is not fine to demand one or to attach conditions to having one that relate to another consenting adult. If you think it is acceptable for parents to seek to control their adult children in this manner, then that is truly fucked up thinking.

Maybe if she actually attended church she would see her attitudes are outdated.
Do you really think telling her DD Jesus will hate you, is coming form a rational person??

For the majority of human history sex before marriage (common law or lawfully) was frowned upon.

I don't think that's true. There are thousands of years of cultures which accepted sex outside of marriage as normal. The Abrahamic religions changed that, but they are by far not the 'majority of human history' in any way.

Nobody is suggesting she did however I like to think that most free thinking good people male & female believe that adult women should have total autonomy over their own minds, bodies and sexuality & that it shouldn’t be hindered or harmed by religion or culture. In this case that is what is being done by gf dm

Surely there is only one response to this:

"I am an adult in a relationship with another adult. Beyond the two of us our choices are no one's business."

And the mother is entitled to apply her own beliefs to her own situation in whatever way she chooses. What she isn't entitled to do is police her adult daughter's behaviour or dictate to the OP's son what he should do with another consenting adult.

She has an absolute right to follow her own religious beliefs. She has no right to seek to impose those beliefs on other autonomous adults.

Christ, run for the hills for sure!

Imagine he won't get a look in if they have kids.

It is absolutely not helpful to run around being the orgasm police.

@PinkStarAtNight I'm really sorry. If you want, I'll be your new mum, yours sounds awful.💐

@AlyssaHasAChaaaaild ... your username is wonderful 😂

You can mock the religion and say its weird , but the mum is just doing what she feels right.

If the religion condones the controlling of legal adults' behaviour, then mock away. Believe what you want to believe, but don't force it on others.