AIBU to think throwing a mum-of-four in prison for having an abortion is never the answer?

[therescoffeeinthatnebula]

Spotted this on Twitter and haven't seen it already being discussed.

Apparently, a woman is being sentenced today for having an abortion over the limit during lockdown. I don't know of the circumstances (can't find anything other than the Sunday Times article), only that she already had four children and claims she didn't know exactly how far along she was.

I think most of us would agree making medical appointments during lockdown was bloody difficult and that it's even harder to attend any appointment if you have children, given you're not normally allowed to take them with you.

Whatever the truth, I'm appalled to see a woman potentially thrown in prison for trying to seek an abortion during lockdown, especially when you look at how violence against women is treated. I'd have thought referring her for mandatory counselling would be more of an appropriate outcome than prison because finding out you aborted what could have been a viable baby has got to mess with anyone's head.

It's all very sad - she should have been able to access proper services earlier - but prison, to me, should never have been on the table as a consequence.

I didn't actually realise that abortion in this country was blanket illegal and that our rights to seek abortions up to the limit are actually exceptions to that law rather than a piece of legislation that stands on its own.

Absolutely

And so many pro lifers don't actually give a stuff about the unborn child and outcomes once it's here. Who will look after it if mum is unable to? Just another kid who is likely to have shit outcomes in life.

I think the service should be more accountable. People may lie, may be incapacitated re: decision making because of various issues, they may be co-erced. I think they need to verify circumstances themselves.

I agree.

Based upon the updates from the journalist twitter feed, this is the defence her legal team has put forward as consideration for the sentencing.

Apparently there are no sentencing guidelines, the last women charged with this offence received an 8 year sentence, reduced to 3.5yrs on appeal.

I'm hoping that she gets a suspended sentence and mandatory mental health treatment. And they don't remove her other children.

If this is the case I think it is, wasn't the woman 28 weeks pregnant?

Have you met a 34 week baby?

Can you imagine the death it would experience by what I presume is a slow poisoning?

Yes the court should think about the 4 still living children and the baby that died.

They should all matter.

I imagine there's a lot more to this case, for it to get this far.
Ultimately, actions have consequences.

I don't think anyone is condoning what actually happened, only sympathising with the circumstances that led to it happening.

I think this woman was failed. I think she should have been able to access healthcare sooner (and in person), had a scan, had her options explained to her sooner, and she should have been able to legally abort.

Either she would have been within standard limits, or if there were other reasons like her severe mental distress, those reasons would have been explored, recorded, and there wouldn't be a case against her.

Lockdown failed her. She doesn't deserve to be imprisoned for that.

A rather apt username.

She was at least 32 weeks. This is destroying a child legally.

The only way would be to have not provided the service at all. It was introduced during covid so women weren't unduly made to suffer unwanted pregnancies. Overall I believe the service was fantastic but you will always find some people who will abuse something offered to help.

How many babies have you adopted then?

I somehow missed 5 pages of messages. Sorry.

Blessed be the Fruit.

Just another kid who is likely to have shit outcomes in life.

So it's ok to kill 34 week fetus' who might have shit outcomes but not the ones being born into privilege?

What does it matter the kid was going to have a crap life anyway. Might as well die.

Grotesque reasoning.

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus Ah, thanks. Have they improved their oversight a bit now? I think GP services are much improved now, so getting a scan etc. should be easier if need be.

Even if she was fully aware of how far along she was and what she was doing it is not in the public interest to jail her.

It's a massive waste of taxpayer's money apart from anything else. She is not a danger to wider society. It will not set a deterrent.

Locking her up costs money. If those children cannot be cared for the state takes the burden on. Mental health impact on mother and children.

It's absolutely disgusting and scary.

I guess that's what the court case will explore.

Just another kid who is likely to have shit outcomes in life.

The social problems of the UK are an entirely separate issue to abortion. Otherwise we will be into sterilising the poor and eugenics territory.

I was wondering what backward country this horror occurred in. Oh it’s the UK. !!!!! Wtaf was someone thinking in pursuing this bull crap?

come on, they were 31 and 28 weeks pregnant, both beyond the stage of viability, that is disgusting in my view, this wasnt someone who just mistook their dates, they would have been showing, feeling baby kick and honestly this is in the realms of murder, things like this cant just be ignoed

I wasn't commenting specifically on this case but rather the fact that in general (and particular US) pro life is just about the unborn foetus. There's bugger all support when it's born. Therefore often shit outcomes. And for any sibling.

But as you were

There will be a lot more to this. She was probably far over the limit too. CPS do not hand out prosecuting easily.

This woman was 28 weeks, there is another case of a younger woman who is 32-34 weeks

Crikey one hell of a stretch there. I'm clearly not calliper for that. Holy fuck

Calling, rather