AIBU to think throwing a mum-of-four in prison for having an abortion is never the answer?

[therescoffeeinthatnebula]

Spotted this on Twitter and haven't seen it already being discussed.

Apparently, a woman is being sentenced today for having an abortion over the limit during lockdown. I don't know of the circumstances (can't find anything other than the Sunday Times article), only that she already had four children and claims she didn't know exactly how far along she was.

I think most of us would agree making medical appointments during lockdown was bloody difficult and that it's even harder to attend any appointment if you have children, given you're not normally allowed to take them with you.

Whatever the truth, I'm appalled to see a woman potentially thrown in prison for trying to seek an abortion during lockdown, especially when you look at how violence against women is treated. I'd have thought referring her for mandatory counselling would be more of an appropriate outcome than prison because finding out you aborted what could have been a viable baby has got to mess with anyone's head.

It's all very sad - she should have been able to access proper services earlier - but prison, to me, should never have been on the table as a consequence.

I didn't actually realise that abortion in this country was blanket illegal and that our rights to seek abortions up to the limit are actually exceptions to that law rather than a piece of legislation that stands on its own.

Did she have a scan? If not then how on Earth can they say she had any intent to deceive ? If she didn’t have a scan then I have no idea how they decided they had a case ? Especially with her age over 40 and likely irregular cycles ?

Her case seems very poor. She already had several children and it is not credible for her to say she did not know. It looks like internet searches made it clear she did know.

@therescoffeeinthatnebula I think it's sad, but it will come to light whether she had any issues that prevented her knowing the advanced stage of her pregnancy. I think there is a stage at which a foetus becomes viable and there are ethical issues in terminating. We can't allow people to take life with no medical oversight at all, it would be dangerous for all concerned.

I would have agreed except that I accompanied a close family member to the GP when they were seeking a termination.

Both GP and woman thought at most 10-12 weeks. GP agreed to refer but sent her for a scan to check first... turned out she was 32 weeks!

Prison would be absolutely disgraceful.

First, even if we accept the fact that she acted illegally, prison is not an answer, she is not a threat to anyone or the public.

Then, and frankly more importantly, WTF! We do need to do something about the legislation, this is outrageous.

If there was no scan they neither the woman or the provider can be held to account as neither could have known the exact gestation ?

If there was a scan then that does make things more difficult but even so ? Prison ?

Oh absolutely, I don't see any benefit in prison in this case. Just making the point that it's unlikely the person who prescribed the pills did anything wrong.

I'm not sure anyone is at fault per se, more that if she hadn't become pregnant during lockdown, there would likely have been a much better outcome for everyone.

She could have seen someone sooner. She would have had a scan when she did. The lack of scan, I think, is what caused this whole sorry situation.

How is hat a crime then?
I thought abortion was legal untill.24 weeks?

If she took the tablets knowing how far along she was, she risked her own life to try and terminate the pregnancy. Being in that mental state would’ve been enough to access a late term abortion.

Hmmm the women had been googling how to conceal a pregnancy and how to induce a miscarriage and the foetus was ages at between 32-34 weeks. So I’d say she knew but jail won’t to any good here. Better services for women and mental health support would be more inline.

If this is the woman who was 28 weeks then I'm sorry but I don't believe she didn't know, she's a mother of 4, she'd have felt the baby kicking etc. She didn't think she was genuinely under 10 weeks so she lied to get medication.

I'm not saying prison is the right answer but I can understand why its been taken to court.

Exactly. Prison is supposed to prevent criminals from repeating a crime (or deter others from copying a crime) and also to rehabilitate the offender.

It's not actually supposed to be about punishing people. It's supposed to be about making our society safer.

How does this help us?

Ok so let’s assume she did know. That she had a scan and deliberately misled /lied . She still doesn’t deserve to go to prison?

I cannot cope with how a woman’s rights are being stripped away , autonomy, personal choice. It’s wrong

As a teenager I had my choice taken away in horrific circumstances in regards to a pregnancy - forced to have a second trimester abortion - I cannot cope when I see things like this. We need to have the choice NO MATTER WHAT and I actually think she shouldn’t have to have lied if she did , the procedure she wanted should have been available for her regardless of gestation or circumstances that’s the real issue.

It just highlights doesn’t it that access to services need to be more available to women regardless of any factors like gestation.

She should have been able to access what she needed not google what she did then try her best to sort it out herself

Well..it is taking a life of a child? 23+ weekers now have a good chance of making it outside the womb.

She had 4 kids, she must have known what possible consequences sex has, there are 1001 ways to prevent a pregnancy and not like she was a naive teenager. Just proves the point of data from US that 94pcnt abortions are repeat and by women who are in relationships using it was awya of birth control.

Shes not the victim here her poor child is.

Exactly. No scan, and you can never be certain.

But we agreed sending women abortion pills without a scan was acceptable during lockdown, and we're now punishing a woman for living within that framework.

If there was no scan they neither the woman or the provider can be held to account as neither could have known the exact gestation ?

The twitter link had a scan of an article reading that she pled guilty - but also said due to lockdown restrictions couldn't attend a scan and hadn't thought herself that far along - which at 44 and approaching menopause with change in cycles doesn't sound implausible.

Doesn't say how far along she was.

Sounds like a mistake all round - and I've no idea if there's additional information or how the police found out.

I would be very surprised if a woman having her 5th child did not realise she was significantly more than 10 weeks. I think at 28 weeks, above the UK limit for abortions, and with a chance of viable life is the reason behind the charges. If she had been 14 - 16 weeks, it might have been more believable.
Either way, I don't think it is something that she should be jailed for.

@HomeEducator No, not everyone is happy with abortion for any reason at any time, which I presume is what you are arguing for?

Exactly this. She knew what she was doing and a jail sentence is warranted.

@HomeEducator - the law would say this woman did something akin to murder which is why she's facing a life sentence, it looks like she knew what she did.

I support abortion rights for women but this is wrong. This woman broke the law. The option is not to send her to prison - it may well be because she has other dependents that she doesn't, but in terms of law, prison is a real prospect and for many years.

I havent see the article but seriously, she thought she can pull off lies 10-12weeks vs 32 weeks pregnant?

Aborting a child at that stage… yeah i would throw the key away.

This is a very sad case. I have read that she was over 28 weeks and that internet searches show that she knew she was advanced. Does/should this change the sentencing?

I just had a look to see if she had been sentenced yet; she will be sentenced after 2pm.

I don't see how sending women in these situations to prison benefits us as a society.