AIBU to think throwing a mum-of-four in prison for having an abortion is never the answer?

[therescoffeeinthatnebula]

Spotted this on Twitter and haven't seen it already being discussed.

Apparently, a woman is being sentenced today for having an abortion over the limit during lockdown. I don't know of the circumstances (can't find anything other than the Sunday Times article), only that she already had four children and claims she didn't know exactly how far along she was.

I think most of us would agree making medical appointments during lockdown was bloody difficult and that it's even harder to attend any appointment if you have children, given you're not normally allowed to take them with you.

Whatever the truth, I'm appalled to see a woman potentially thrown in prison for trying to seek an abortion during lockdown, especially when you look at how violence against women is treated. I'd have thought referring her for mandatory counselling would be more of an appropriate outcome than prison because finding out you aborted what could have been a viable baby has got to mess with anyone's head.

It's all very sad - she should have been able to access proper services earlier - but prison, to me, should never have been on the table as a consequence.

I didn't actually realise that abortion in this country was blanket illegal and that our rights to seek abortions up to the limit are actually exceptions to that law rather than a piece of legislation that stands on its own.

I also find the total disregard for the suffering babies to be incomprehensible in the radical pro choice stance.

You don’t have to offer your hand at all.

That's because the social pressure, and in jurisdictions where commercial surrogacy is legal, contractual and financial pressure on the surrogate mother to carry to term at risk to her own health and even life are enormous. She can also be under pressure from the commissioning parents to abort for something as trivial and fixable as cleft palate.

These factors reduce her agency during the pregnancy. They take away her ability to say "nah, this hyperemesis gravidarum is too much, I want to abort" or "shit I've got early stage cancer and the chemo is incompatible with being pregnant, I want to abort". Many women go through hell during pregnancy because they want the child, that's fine because it's their choice to, but when they are being leant on by commissioning parents to stay pregnant, even threatened with legal action, to keep a baby that's making them ill, that's a very different matter and is not OK.

I'm not sure whether prison is the answer, but the title of this post is misleading.

She didn't just have an abortion over the limit, which could mean a couple of weeks. The article says that she was 34-35 weeks and she ordered abortion pills which you can only use up to 10 weeks. She lied to obtain them and had internet searched how to conceal the pregnancy. That's almost full term.

You can't just take bloody abortion pills at 35 weeks pregnant. As horrific as it must be to have to continue to give birth if you really don't want/can't cope with the baby, she caused a still birth. What did she think she was going to do with the body?

I have absolute understanding for any woman who wants to seek an abortion for any reason, but she didn't have an abortion. She deliberately caused a still birth.

Conversely I could never support the termination of fully viable foetuses/babies just because the mother doesn't want them. So what do you do then, other than force women to continue with the pregnancies?

I have an IUD. It's one of the most effective methods of contraception. I don't want any more children. Surly by your logic I should only have sex if I am prepared to have another child? Shame really as I like having sex. Oh well.

I think the point is that this unfortunate woman took an action which might well have ended with the baby being born alive but disabled to a greater or lesser extent, or in a condition where she could not survive for long. At that point arguments about the woman's bodily autonomy really fall away, because the baby is a separate being who stands to suffer for the rest of her life as a result of her mother's deliberate actions.

Oh, FFS. Read this: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65164041.amp

Man who rapes girl doesn't go to prison.

Woman who takes abortion pills, does.

How did the baby girl die?
Did they reveal this in the proceedings? Seems relevant.

My mum had a termination before I was born. I did have a few days wondering what if and then forgot all about it really.

I now also have a younger brother born 20 years after my sister. He’s the same age as my dd.

I don’t really see him. In fact, I sometimes forget I even have a brother.

It depends. If she knew how far along she was then I do believe she should be punished. 32-34 weeks is a viable life (my own was born at 33 weeks 20+ years ago and is a healthy adult). To take pills to cause the death of a baby that would have to be delivered is an awful thing to do. Even in lockdown there would have been alternatives. I am pro choice, aborting a foetus is very very different to causing the still birth of a 32-34 week old baby in my opinion.

I’ve read the whole story. It’s absolutely awful. The sad thing is she could’ve waited a few more weeks, given birth to a live baby instead and given it away. She knew she was very very pregnant and the partner would also have know. She made a very poor choice and it’s very sad. They are clearly making an example of her.

It doesn’t matter whether you like it or not. Very pregnant biological women have to give birth. And she would have regretted it even if she hadn’t been caught. She needs a lot of help and I hope she gets it.

Every time you have sex pregnancy is a risk. Contraception hugely decreases the risk. Abortion is limited in the UK.

The only way to ensure you don't have any more children is not to have sex.
Sorry to break that to you.

So what makes you think that it's OK to give a pregnant woman fewer rights than a corpse? Because that's the reality of granting the unborn baby the right to use the woman's body as a life support machine during the pregnancy.

Conversely I could never support the termination of fully viable foetuses/babies just because the mother doesn't want them. So what do you do then, other than force women to continue with the pregnancies?

It doesn't need your support. The only persons opinion who matter is that who is carrying the pregnancy. Your feelings shouldn't come into it. You don't get to decide what other women do with their bodies.

Definitely. And the law agrees which is why she went to prison. Just like that girl who ran away with her boyfriend and newborn baby that died.

Why not though? It’s not just their body.

i hope this country does not regress to USA type attempts to completely ban abortions and completely control - and severely limit - women’s reproductive choices.

As I said, you can't get pregnant accidentally.

Tell that to a rape victim.

*Every time you have sex pregnancy is a risk. Contraception hugely decreases the risk. Abortion is limited in the UK.

The only way to ensure you don't have any more children is not to have sex.
Sorry to break that to you.*

Uhm no, if I got pregnant then I'd have an abortion. That'd stop me having any more children.

@StrawberryWasp are you Jeremy Kyle

Yeah but if I found myself knocked up it would absolutely be an accidental pregnancy.

She could have a C-section completely unconscious, have the baby whipped away and probably be in better shape physically and mentally. This woman is going to be scarred by what she did.

Remind me again why I shouldn't just drink bleach and end it all?

I hate the judicial misogyny in this country. She was a school girl FFS.

Good one.