AIBU to think throwing a mum-of-four in prison for having an abortion is never the answer?

[therescoffeeinthatnebula]

Spotted this on Twitter and haven't seen it already being discussed.

Apparently, a woman is being sentenced today for having an abortion over the limit during lockdown. I don't know of the circumstances (can't find anything other than the Sunday Times article), only that she already had four children and claims she didn't know exactly how far along she was.

I think most of us would agree making medical appointments during lockdown was bloody difficult and that it's even harder to attend any appointment if you have children, given you're not normally allowed to take them with you.

Whatever the truth, I'm appalled to see a woman potentially thrown in prison for trying to seek an abortion during lockdown, especially when you look at how violence against women is treated. I'd have thought referring her for mandatory counselling would be more of an appropriate outcome than prison because finding out you aborted what could have been a viable baby has got to mess with anyone's head.

It's all very sad - she should have been able to access proper services earlier - but prison, to me, should never have been on the table as a consequence.

I didn't actually realise that abortion in this country was blanket illegal and that our rights to seek abortions up to the limit are actually exceptions to that law rather than a piece of legislation that stands on its own.

She means they’re fine because they’re alive 🙄

No thought about if they’re actually fine though.

This. Completely.

I wouldn't assume this is a woman, even though there are plenty of handmaidens happy to propagate the more vile rape myths.

So was she reported by the hospital ? How did this get to the police ?

That has absolutely no indication on her ability to be a good mother. Maybe she wanted to have the abortion because she felt her children’s lives would be impacted by another sibling and she did it for their well-being. Lockdown was upon us and she might have really panicked.

It says she needs support with her mental health so she can remain a caregiver to four children who need her.

It says that the appropriate consequence is court-ordered counselling, not court-ordered prison.

Everyone is assuming she was a lovely woman who found herself in difficult circumstances....this may not be the case at all, hence going to court.
I do know women that use abortion like a contraceptive, can't be bothered with a condom with the latest guy but it doesn't matter because they can always 'get rid' if needed. People like this exist.
If she was 34 weeks then she should face the consequences, my baby was born at 31.5 weeks and was perfectly viable. She wasn't aborting cells at that point and she knew it regardless of the circumstances.
There has to be a limit and she ignored it.

The prosecution is saying she was 32-34 weeks and she lied to the pharmacist.

They'll have to prove both. But if proved, yes it's a crime to knowingly kill a 34week fetus.

I'm not sure what kind of death morning after pill would inflict on a 34 week fetus but I imagine a pretty prolonged and awful death for the baby.

We know she had four kids already, and she found out she was pregnant with a fifth she did not feel able to keep... all during lockdown.

Nothing about the above could possibly be easy circumstances.

The hospital called the police. She confessed that she'd taken the abortion pills to hospital staff and the police.

Really winning heart and minds for your warped forced birth agenda there, Bloopsie,. Have a gold star.

I think she was chancing it.

The punishment will have been because she was over the 24 week viability limit and not because she was over the 10.

There is no way on earth that a woman that has gone through 4 other pregnancies cannot tell the difference between the two gestations. She thought she could get away with it by pleading ignorance that is the real reason for her sentancing.

I'm not sure what kind of death morning after pill would inflict on a 34 week fetus but I imagine a pretty prolonged and awful death for the baby.

I had not thought of this, but it's quite likely the case and something that will be looked at as well.

I'm definitely in favour of early abortion, but to deliberately kill at 34 weeks is not about a woman's right to choose. It is as close to infanticide as you can get. In no way is it understandable or acceptable.

"Mr. Price, for the prosecution, tells the court that the woman had known she was pregnant for around three months.

He tells the court she had made various web searches around concealing a pregnancy and inducing a miscarriage.

It has been determined that the foetus was between 32 and 34 weeks."

That is not being unsure about the date of your last period and stretching the truth by saying oh yes definitely less than 10 weeks along. The CPS wouldn't have authorised a charge unless there was this evidence of deception and knowingly lying to obtain the drugs, and then sadly to have ended a pregnancy at a point when the seemingly health baby could have survived.

If she had given birth to that baby and then left it in a supermarket toilet or abandoned in a park or something, you would legitimately say she was responsible if it then died.

I'm very much in favour of the right of women to choose not to be pregnant. And if a baby isn't going to survive or will be very seriously ill and suffering then late term abortions are a sad but necessary option. But once a baby can survive on its own... I don't think many people would support routine late term abortions without some sort of medical reason?

I completely agree with this.

Yes what the woman did was very wrong but what is best for her existing children is for their mum to be around!

She was not going to die delivering the baby,if she was not capable taking care of it there are many infertile couples looking to love and adopt a baby.

I used to judge some doctors for not wanting to get involved in abortions.

It makes much more sense when you realise that they're being asked to take part in a criminal act... then try to find a reason why it might not be illegal after all.

If abortion were decriminalised, it would take that pressure off medical professionals. It would be like providing any form of healthcare - if they stuck to the basic principles of 'do no harm', they would be covered.

It might widen the number of healthcare professionals willing to provide abortion services, and that would make it easier for women to seek abortions at an earlier stage in their pregnancy. Whatever your views on abortion, I think most people would agree that if it has to happen, the sooner the better.

Why was she not going to be around by delivering the baby?

If anything murdering a child can cause someone to go to jail and not be around..

Not knowing if you're over 10 weeks is a huge difference to the fact she delivered a 28 week foetus.
It's a very difficult case.

Sure, because women never die in childbirth.

And women over 35 are definitely not considered AMA (advanced maternal age), with higher risk of things going wrong.

Interesting that everyone invested in the outcome for the fétus, is far less concerned about the outcomes for her existing four live children. I imagine (quite rightly) that they were here priority over the unborn child
She broke the law. End of. The court are not there to make an emotional judgement. There is a law that says abortion over 24 weeks is illegal because these are not deemed foetus any longer. They can survive.

Would it be sane outcome if she'd killed her baby after it was born alive at 28weeks.

She is the one who failed her family breaking the law. She might face many circumstances leading her to it, but it is still her who broke the law and the consequences are her doing.

Very sad case.

Adding more babies to a family does make you less present in the life of the children you already have. I had a lockdown baby and I have almost no memory of my older child during that time period. Obviously the plan was for other family to help out, play with them, take them out but that couldn't happen because of lockdown.

I can well see how someone's mental health could have deteriorated in lockdown to the point of feeling like you wouldn't cope with a new baby and no support.

@Bloopsie I mean putting her in prison now wouldn't be in the interests of her existing children.