Our local Catholic church doesn't want us there. I can't understand why

[BlueMediterranean]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share an issue my partner and I have been facing at our local Catholic church and get your thoughts on it. We moved to a new city about a year and a half ago and bought a house here. The schools in the area are somewhat average, and the best one by far is a Catholic school. Being Catholics ourselves, we thought we wouldn't have any issues.

Initially, we didn't attend church because I was heavily pregnant, and after that, I experienced postpartum depression, which made it difficult for me to feel comfortable leaving the house with my baby. However, my partner started going to the evening mass on Sundays instead of the morning one. We officially registered with the church when we moved here.

After about 6-7 months, I joined him at the evening mass. From the very beginning, we found it strange that the priest never greeted anyone. As soon as he finished his sermon, he would disappear. Everyone would leave, and there was no socializing whatsoever.

One day, we went to talk to him about baptizing our baby, but he told us that he didn't know us well enough and asked us to continue attending the mass. We found this odd but decided to keep going. A few months later, we asked again, and he gave us the same response. In fact, he didn't remember us and thought we wanted to register as new members.

That's when we started to worry. If the priest never greets anyone and leaves immediately after the sermon, how can he get to know anyone? We could attend mass for years, and he wouldn't even know our names.

We had to rearrange some personal commitments to attend the Sunday morning mass to see if things were different, but he still doesn't greet anyone. We persisted in asking about the baptism and were given the contact information of a church volunteer who organizes the baptism course. Unfortunately, our emails to this person have gone unanswered, and when we asked in person, they claimed not to have received them.

I am truly baffled by all of this. Why does the church ignore us in this manner? I am now worried about how we'll obtain the necessary paperwork to register our daughter at the Catholic school if they won't even baptize her.

There must be a reason behind all of this, but I honestly can't comprehend it. I have considered volunteering, but both my partner and I work full-time jobs, which makes it challenging.

If anyone has any insights or suggestions, please share them. We would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you.

Omg the discussion about the use of the word sermon is still happening..... 🤦🏼‍♀️

FWIW, I'm unmarried, didn't have to do any course or even attend mass before having a baptism, and our priest doesn't wait around at the end of the mass. Sounds like this parish is being particularly difficult (I say parish as even the person they got in contact with seemed awkward to deal with) which is strange as numbers are dropping and you'd think they'd be delighted to recruit a few new members.

Sure - I'm thinking of when we lived in London and a few friends in their 30s were trying to get baptised to get their kids into various Catholic schools deemed 'outstanding' by Ofsted (literally happened w 3 people I knew), and other friends who wouldn't have baptised their kids otherwise did so due to school admittance policies. I think some would have considered worshipping satan if it meant a place in certain schools and then the Oratory!

go to a different church and explain to the priets there what you have experienced.

Someone mentioned up thread that a baptism course is not usual. It is becoming more normal - especially in the more trad churches. Our new awful priest only didn't insist we.attend one for our third child (who we had baptised before wr chose to leave the parish) because i used to teach the first communion course and he could tell (begrudgingly) that my knowledge and grasp of catechism was solid. For others he is insisting.

The sermon vs homily debate. I have been a Catholic all my life and have always heard it referred to as the sermon by priests and laiity alike. I think this is a geographical issue rather than denominational.

The homily is supposed to be a (brief) address based on the Scriptures set out for that day in the Lectionary (not something there's any choice about) - in effect usually the Gospel. In Ireland at least it's rare for them to last more than ca 7 minutes, usually less. The two central elements of the Mass are the Scripture readings and the communion. Sermons in some of the protestant denominations are much more central and can go on for far longer and the preacher may have a lot more discretion as to topic and scriptural sources used.

Transubstantiation does not mean the bread and wine "literally" turn into Christ. It means they "really" turn into Christ. "Real" here is some sort of philosophy term. Technically, the molecules of bread and wine are the "accidents." They stay the same. The "true nature" of the bread and wine changes "substance" to become the Body and Blood of Christ. I don't really understand the metaphysics but I just think of Holy Communion as a sort of wormhole that brings Heaven down to Earth😁.

There is no Mass on Good Friday. It's the one day of the year that there isn't a Mass. Hence, Good Friday is not a Holy Day of Obligation.

Catholicism I think does tend to be quite legalistic. Partly because, for some reason, Catholics tend to try to find what's the bare minimum we can do, and do that. So you have to set SOME boundary or else no one will do anything at all.
In terms of the "personal relationship with Jesus Christ" I would say that to have a personal relationship with Christ, you have to know something about Him, and in Catholicism, the way you do that is you go to Mass on Sundays and hear the Gospel. Over a three year cycle of Sundays, you'll hear pretty much all of the four Gospels in their entirety, plus the key parts of the rest of the Bible. (Over a two year cycle of weekday Masses, you'll apparently hear the entire bible, but I've never tried that so I can't attest to it personally.)

Anyway, point being, there's a reason why the Catholic Church really wants people to go to Mass. Like anything else, you get out what you put in, so if you never go to Mass, never volunteer, etc, then you may very well miss out on what's so great about it.

Maybe they are, but it seems quite short-sighted. You'd think they'd want anyone in the faith. OK, maybe you will only regularly go to mass until your child is 5 and safely in the Catholic school. But you might carry on.

Whereas if they tell you to bog off (or just ignore you) you won't.

DH said that when his niece was christened (CofE) the vicar was really snotty about the whole ceremony making comments about people who only go to church for "hatchings, matchings and despatchings" - but again it seems short-sighted when church attendance is decreasing.

Welcome people with open arms and some will stay.

But the other key thing about Mass is the reception of the Eucharist and memorialisation of Christ's sacrifice - so it's not just about knowing about Jesus, but (in Vatican 2 terms) being 'in communion' with Him.

I think the Church would prefer people who actually believe rather than bums on seats (knees on pews?) and it must be tiresome when people want to use the church to get into schools or for ceremonies, and then ignore it the rest of the time. Various bishops/archbishops have made statements to that effect, and it's fair enough really

I agree, I imagine quality wins over quantity.

In terms of the OP, I'd ask the priest at the previous parish where I attended regularly to perhaps pen a letter of introduction to the priest who may well be thinking OP is a school place seeker rather than a devout Catholic.

Shouldn't be necessary, of course, but if it's a well-trodden path - rock up for a few months, get the baptism and disappear until the next hatching - I can fully understand the frustration of those being used/abused in that way.

@aloris A lot of the Old Testament would be, ahem, challenging to include.

This webpage has had a go at measuring the proportions of each book represented: https://catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/Statistics.htm

After more than 10 lots of three-year cycles it does all get a bit familiar. I could also do without the Pauline epistles. Least favourite saint ever.

After more than 10 lots of three-year cycles it does all get a bit familiar. I could also do without the Pauline epistles. Least favourite saint ever

Haha! @raisedtoe
Another person like me. I can't bear him.
I can recommend moving to Austria. Here, it is extremely rare to have a second reading at all so I haven't had to listen to the Pauline epistles for 15 years.

Paul is wonderful. I often wonder what was in the letters he received that made him reply as he did - you can practically see the cogs turning as he tries to work stuff out

That link to what is in the Lectionary os great - there's actually more from Chronicles than I expected, but yet again, why no Judith? It's almost as though the chaps don't want us to hear about a strong woman decapitating a disrespectful man.

I'm not married and didn't have any problem getting DD christened in a Catholic Church.

I got my (old) parish priest to write a letter to the parish priest at my new church and it was all booked in no problem.

If the priest is ignoring you I'd either move church or write a letter to the Bishop and ask what the problem is.

I haven't met a priest who gives two hoots about unmarried mothers or divorcees for over 30 years.

I'm in my 50s, was raised Irish Catholic and I've always called it a sermon

*FYI, you always had to sign up to be given those envelopes (for gift aid purposes I believe) They were never mandatory at all.

Also, you don't have to give a donation to attend Church at all. And no one would think any less of you for not giving anything.*

Perhaps I'm older than you, but certainly when I was a child in the 70s all the parents at my Catholic school received them, and were expected to use them. Nobody signed up for them.*
*

Same here. I was prolly a couple of years behind you.

I was born in 1985, so yes you are older than me.

Perhaps it was a thing earlier on.

The first time I went I was amazed how full the 3pm Good Friday service was. It's own unique celebration. No communion. And it goes on forever. Much longer than a Mass. Glad to give it a miss now.

You know you don’t need to be Catholic to apply for your child to go to a catholic school right?! However if you are unhappy with the Priest just make a complaint. And just introduce yourself to the community in other settings.

You of course dont need to be anything to apply. But if you want a shot of getting in, you need to be as far up the admissions list as you can be.

when my dd was going into yr 7, there was outrage on the local fb pages from parents who couldnt understand why their children did not get into the RC high school when they lived behind it / short walk away.

Church admin are often run by retired overworked volunteers, so forget about it being personal.

however do note many Catholic schools are over subscribed, even with a form it doesn’t always guarantee anything. From what I hear Catholic Churches are well used to people purely joining for a school placement, so can seem a little cold when fairly quickly being asked.

i would advise to keep going, socialise and send emails and call to arrange a baptism.

i know of middle aged Catholics that move house and the Priests can be like this. Think nothing of it, I would advise not to make your want to be there mainly about school placements and more for the enrichment. It is a longer road than some think, think about also joining social events outside of church, coffee mornings or volunteer for things like making tea after the service.

Unless it’s a private school the same admission criteria apply as for all other schools. And living right by the school in some areas you are still out of catchment. Amd there could well be a load of older siblings they don’t know about for their precious only child/first born.

under equality law any school that is not a public school is not allowed to discriminate on account of religion. And putting you higher on the list on acct of religion would be positive discrimination.

Different churches have their own rules depending on their priest even if they are all meant to follow the same rules. I go to a lovely RC church. I was going before I had my children and then they’ve been baptised, first holy communion, confirmation. Between the second baptism and the FHC I was divorced but no one’s bothered. I go regularly to church and when it was time for baptism it was just put in the diary without question and was part of the service we attend regularly. However many families who don’t attend regularly but who want the option to register for the school which requires baptism often request a short baptism service separate to the mass. These unknown families are often signed up to the baptism course - although we’ve had several priests over the years and some do and some don’t expect them to do the course. However there is a second parish which our priest also now overlooks. The previous priest was there for decades, well loved, well known etc. And he was happy to baptise anyone without question and happy to never see them again. Usually the separate 30 minute baptism service rather than part of mass. People generally went o his church rather than ours for the baptisms!!

My church has tea and coffee after mass - depending on who volunteers to serve it. Priest never greets on arrival but always shakes hands at the end and chats, unless he has to go to another church to cover an absent/sick priest. The church down the road doesn’t have anywhere for tea/coffee after.

I’ve been in lots of churches over the years and experienced very different things from being ignored to invited for Sunday lunch following the mass. They are all different.

Often the priest has a secretary though who may be the person to speak to about booking things in. They often don’t work many hours - maybe a few hours one day a week. It’s definitely worth trying to talk to people though rather than expecting them to talk to you.

Church schools can have baptism in the faith as higher up the criteria than non church schools. It’s not discrimination. Schools can set their own admissions criteria. The main things that seem to trump criteria hate your child having an EHCP which makes that school, and then also children who are ‘looked after’.

thats a bit competely garbled but from what i gather you mean, simply isnt true. Of course RC schools can prioritise RC children. Why do you think they cant?