Our local Catholic church doesn't want us there. I can't understand why

[BlueMediterranean]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share an issue my partner and I have been facing at our local Catholic church and get your thoughts on it. We moved to a new city about a year and a half ago and bought a house here. The schools in the area are somewhat average, and the best one by far is a Catholic school. Being Catholics ourselves, we thought we wouldn't have any issues.

Initially, we didn't attend church because I was heavily pregnant, and after that, I experienced postpartum depression, which made it difficult for me to feel comfortable leaving the house with my baby. However, my partner started going to the evening mass on Sundays instead of the morning one. We officially registered with the church when we moved here.

After about 6-7 months, I joined him at the evening mass. From the very beginning, we found it strange that the priest never greeted anyone. As soon as he finished his sermon, he would disappear. Everyone would leave, and there was no socializing whatsoever.

One day, we went to talk to him about baptizing our baby, but he told us that he didn't know us well enough and asked us to continue attending the mass. We found this odd but decided to keep going. A few months later, we asked again, and he gave us the same response. In fact, he didn't remember us and thought we wanted to register as new members.

That's when we started to worry. If the priest never greets anyone and leaves immediately after the sermon, how can he get to know anyone? We could attend mass for years, and he wouldn't even know our names.

We had to rearrange some personal commitments to attend the Sunday morning mass to see if things were different, but he still doesn't greet anyone. We persisted in asking about the baptism and were given the contact information of a church volunteer who organizes the baptism course. Unfortunately, our emails to this person have gone unanswered, and when we asked in person, they claimed not to have received them.

I am truly baffled by all of this. Why does the church ignore us in this manner? I am now worried about how we'll obtain the necessary paperwork to register our daughter at the Catholic school if they won't even baptize her.

There must be a reason behind all of this, but I honestly can't comprehend it. I have considered volunteering, but both my partner and I work full-time jobs, which makes it challenging.

If anyone has any insights or suggestions, please share them. We would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you.

Okay I'd change tack: straight after the service, either collar the priest if he hasn't escaped or approach whoever is cleaning up the church. That person will either be the right person or introduce you to whoever it is who can help you. Reiterate that you've been diligently attending church each week for over 12 months.

But honestly I'd go elsewhere to baptise my child. They sound really unwelcoming and cliquey.

For both my kids (at different churches in different countries), we didn't even bother attending church at all ahead of the baptism!

I don't want to get into a theological argument...but practice (as in core rituals, sacraments) as belief is pretty central to Catholicism given sacramental theology!

I do think it's tricky when you've a country like Ireland where the state ceded so much control to the Church in certain areas and now as it becomes more secularised people want to retain rituals even if they don't attend Mass or really believe. Over 90% of primary schools in Ireland are still nominally Catholic - so it's difficult to wrest the ritual away from belief I guess.

At least in Ireland there's a strong degree of 'cultural' Catholicism, but I think what annoys people (and probably the Church) is people professing Catholicism in the UK just to get their kids into the best schools.

@nidgey Individual priests and parishes and churches will differ - but why wouldn't Catholicism be different from CoE? They're both Christian denominations but differ on some core beliefs and practices - the Reformation and all that...

I agree here! I've been to a few CofE services and while the formal service is very similar it's socially a very different experience. There's a stronger streak of evangelicalism too. 'What would Jesus do' is something I would normally hear an RE teacher say and pretty much nobody else.

Catholicism as practised in Great Britain tends to be - well, less posh. The social mix is very different, how people dress is very different, the buildings are very different, the places practising Anglicans and practising Catholics live are very different. The theology for high church Anglicans (who often identify as Catholic) and Roman Catholics is not hugely different, but socially these are very different worlds.

At least in Ireland there's a strong degree of 'cultural' Catholicism, but I think what annoys people (and probably the Church) is people professing Catholicism in the UK just to get their kids into the best schools.

That type of cultural Catholicism absolutely exists in the UK too, not a great surprise considering how many Catholics here are of Irish descent and how very strong the Irish cultural influence has been.

And the 'best schools' part is just plain irrelevant for lots of people. Obviously that cohort are over-represented on MN, but if you're talking Catcholic schools in the more deprived areas of Glasgow, Manchester, Liverpool etc... not so much! Those of us who come from the community in such areas tend to have a different perspective.

Yep, and dare I say it, there are always people who clearly don't get this whenever these sort of issues are discussed on MN. It's always obvious when someone's experience of or just cultural barometer for church and religious issues comes from more well heeled Anglicanism. Like a pp not getting that Catholic churches in England have loads of immigrants in them, for example.

@nidgey practice (as in core rituals, sacraments) as belief is pretty central to Catholicism given sacramental theology!

Sure, but very few of even the actively-practising really think about practice-as-belief. Very, very few people are interested in theology.

And then there are all the different varieties of the less actively-involved who are still maintaining some relationship with the institutional church. Many of them don't seem themselves as less valid Catholics than the regular attenders.

They will have reasons which feel moral to them to be less involved at some points of their lives, and more involved at others. For many people, their children's right to a particular cultural identity and a reasonably good education - perhaps at the school they themselves attended - feels deeply moral. Others see it as morally-deficient or unfair. Morality comes in different flavours.

Excuse me, but immigrants can be "well heeled" too, did you know? Many times more so then their Anglican counterparts. Unbelievable.

I hate this organised patriarchal type religion. But I’d start taking a selfie outside the door every time you attend so you can show them a time stamped photo of you going every week.

Yep, which is why I didn't say they couldn't. Doesn't affect the point that Catholicism as practiced in GB does tend to be less posh, as the person I quoted said, and that the well heeled Anglican enclaves don't really have a direct equivalent in British Catholicism.

@PurpleWisteria1 Ive been to both RC and CofE churches all my life and honestly to me the catholics are usually less stuffy but you get all sorts in all churches. If you truly believe that the religious practices of your church are right then obviously you will encourage your fellow church goers to follow them. Why wouldn’t you?

I guess as well some people make a distinction between personal morality and adhering to the teachings of the Church (not arguing, just saying). I don't know anyone who'd describe themselves as a believing Catholic who doesn't believe in the sanctifying grace of receiving the eucharist. The blurring comes with 'cultural identity' - for some people, you're a believing, practicing Catholic and it's not to do with culture but belief.

Looking at the entrance requirements for Catholic primary schools in the UK, it's notable that some emphasise the obligation and importance of attendance at weekly Mass over a sustained period.

Until you mentioned mass times and the length of time you've been attending i thought you could be talking about my.local catholic church and the way the new priest is. Before he came the parish was incredibly lovely and welcoming. It wouldn't have mattered who you were or your marital status - there would have been a complete welcome and you would have been folded into our community.

But there is a movement in the church to go back to the old values. The new priest is one of these. If you haven't been to confession recently, he will refuse communion. He won't have anything for children as it distracts from the mass. He advocates not attending weddings if they aren't in the catholic rite as it's not real marriage and your soul could be damaged by supporting it. He teaches that only catholics will go to heaven (and only if they follow him and go to confession a lot). He would not be welcoming to new families as "they're only here to get their child into school" but then laments that no families come to mass. There are more ways that i can list as to how offensive and departed from what i have always lived as the catholic faith. But you get the idea! We have defected to a different parish and it breaks my heart as I've been attending there since i was 4 - all major.milestones in my religious life and the religious lives of my children have been there. All the parishioners virtually that made the parish the welcoming lovely (very quirky and a bit quaint) Place it was have gone. The only people who go now are those that come from miles away to have a trad mass but don't get involved in parish life as they don't live locally enough. It is enormously sad.

Try the other church. And complain to the bishop!

Sounds like a combination of not being married and perhaps they get a lot of people trying to get baptisms for school catchment so create more hoops to jump through than they would otherwise. I live in a very Catholic area with lots of older people and it took about five years for any of my neighbours to acknowledge me on the street so it could just be a reticence to newcomers (which isn't very Christian obv)

That's terrible and sounds very sad for you. Hopefully he'll move on and a more welcoming priest take his place.

Lifelong Catholic here.
There's something odd about this. I can't work out if it's OP not really understanding things about Catholicism (such as saying the priest leaves after the sermon which would never happen; not realizing that being unmarried could be an issue; possibly misunderstanding some of the communication about things like the baptism course)
Or if the priest and that particular church are being weird. Not meeting and greeting is normal. They have to prepare for Mass and say prayers in advance so don't have time to be out the front welcoming people arriving. Some do hang around afterwards at the door and chat to people on the way out.
The baptism course is weird - has he misunderstood and thought you want to be baptized along with the baby? Some churches do insist on parents going along for a couple of chats before the baby's baptism but it's not really a "course".
Maybe he's fed up with people turning up to get their baby baptized so they can get into the local school in 4 years time.
But I do find it odd that a priest won't baptize the baby - normally they want to do that, irrespective of the parents' marital status because it's not the baby's "fault" if the parents are unmarried.

If you want to get your baby baptized you should go to another church and talk to the priest there. The fact you mention whether there would be problems with the "postcode" suggests perhaps you are most concerned about getting into the school and not about the baby being baptized a Catholic..... Perhaps the priest has picked up on these vibes.
For school entrance it does not matter where the baby was baptized. Mass attendance at a church associated with the school is important. Though if you'd been attending another church and moved to a new area and wanted your child to attend the school you could get a priest from a previous parish to give you a reference regarding Mass attendance.

I wonder if sermon meant that bit at the end where they read announcements. It's meant to be brief but I bet some do waffle enough to make it into a sermon.

One thing to add, the reason tjat RC priests don,'t usually meet and greet before the service is because they often take confessions before the service, and also they have to say prayers before the mass starts.

@GlucklicheTage re Transubstantiation, I wonder how old you are? I'm mid 40's and I didn't know about it until I went to university and it came up in a late night chat with friends... bit embarrassing. I think it's because back then you were confirmed at 11 years old, at least in my diocese, and the preparation was very much aimed at children rather than young adults. I also didn't go to a Catholic school. My own children went to Catholic school and weren't confirmed until age 15. I really feel light on knowledge compared to them. (I realise the OP hasn't been back so not sure how genuine this thread is but some interesting comments and thoughts!)

Transubstantiation is pretty crucial to Catholicism - and was explained to us when we were making our first holy communion (aged 6). In confirmation, the focus is on the Holy Spirit. In most Protestant churches, if there's communion it's merely symbolic.

Is there a parish newsletter? With contact details of the people running the baptism course? Call directly? There will be a mandatory course, not run by the priest.

with our church we had to sign into mass, for the school to see our attendance.

Most priests have an admin person, make contact with them?

@nidgey it was never been explained to me. First communion prep (at age 6) was all about colouring in pictures too. Obviously they talked about the body and blood of Christ, but noone ever said it actually changes. Maybe differences in areas, but I just feel I got caught in a 1980s approach which didn't have the right effect!

One of the bigger surprises was learning that 3pm Good Friday Mass was an obligation, not an option.

Not so, at least not in my experience from childhood to the present day , and IU've seen a fair few Popes come and go!

thedailymass.com/good-friday

Traditionally, there is no Mass and no celebration of the Eucharist on Good Friday. A liturgy may still be performed and communion, if taken, comes from hosts consecrated on Holy Thursday. Baptism, penance, and anointing of the sick may be performed, but only in unusual circumstances. Church bells are silent.

I went to a Catholic Primary School and made my first holy communion at 7yrs old. Transubstantiation was a really central part of the teaching - that was 1967.

If the priest vanishes through a door to the side after Mass and doesn't re-emerge (as is very common in my [Irish] experience) he'll be saying a closing prayer and putting away his vestments and it would be fine for you to tap on the door, walk in, and ask him about arranging baptism for your child.

If you need to go to the parish office or contact a specific person he'll be able to give you the contact details. You can then take it from there. Just watch where he heads to after the final blessing (sit near the front of the church).

And if he's unhelpful or hostile, go to another Catholic church, do the same thing, and explain - they'll know all about him, and sympathise.