Our local Catholic church doesn't want us there. I can't understand why

[BlueMediterranean]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share an issue my partner and I have been facing at our local Catholic church and get your thoughts on it. We moved to a new city about a year and a half ago and bought a house here. The schools in the area are somewhat average, and the best one by far is a Catholic school. Being Catholics ourselves, we thought we wouldn't have any issues.

Initially, we didn't attend church because I was heavily pregnant, and after that, I experienced postpartum depression, which made it difficult for me to feel comfortable leaving the house with my baby. However, my partner started going to the evening mass on Sundays instead of the morning one. We officially registered with the church when we moved here.

After about 6-7 months, I joined him at the evening mass. From the very beginning, we found it strange that the priest never greeted anyone. As soon as he finished his sermon, he would disappear. Everyone would leave, and there was no socializing whatsoever.

One day, we went to talk to him about baptizing our baby, but he told us that he didn't know us well enough and asked us to continue attending the mass. We found this odd but decided to keep going. A few months later, we asked again, and he gave us the same response. In fact, he didn't remember us and thought we wanted to register as new members.

That's when we started to worry. If the priest never greets anyone and leaves immediately after the sermon, how can he get to know anyone? We could attend mass for years, and he wouldn't even know our names.

We had to rearrange some personal commitments to attend the Sunday morning mass to see if things were different, but he still doesn't greet anyone. We persisted in asking about the baptism and were given the contact information of a church volunteer who organizes the baptism course. Unfortunately, our emails to this person have gone unanswered, and when we asked in person, they claimed not to have received them.

I am truly baffled by all of this. Why does the church ignore us in this manner? I am now worried about how we'll obtain the necessary paperwork to register our daughter at the Catholic school if they won't even baptize her.

There must be a reason behind all of this, but I honestly can't comprehend it. I have considered volunteering, but both my partner and I work full-time jobs, which makes it challenging.

If anyone has any insights or suggestions, please share them. We would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you.

NFP involves a lot more than temperature tracking. In fact, temperature tracking shouldn't be necessary if your familiar enough with your own body signs of fertility (if using NFP is your thing).

I have to admit, those who have commented on birth control as a sin to me (also a mortal sin) other than NFP have been walking the talk, so I'll give them that.

Absolutely @HerbsandSpices
and who are we to judge, those who throw the first stones and all that.

I'm not judging. I'm agnostic at best as far as religious leanings. Life is complex. Blatant hypocrisy doesn't sit right with me though. Hence I stopped going to church when we started using birth control.

Must you go to a Catholic Church and your child to a Catholic school? It sounds very oppressive and out of touch, and you aren't experiencing the benefits that being part of a church family should bring. Could you not attend a different denomination - CofE/Methodist? Your child could still attend a Christian school?

It's saddening to hear that situations like this could arise in a church environment, and is the complete opposite of what I have experienced in other church denominations.

I assure you @HerbsandSpices that wasn’t judgmental
I hope you didn’t get me wrong
I was agreeing with you….for once😊

I’m guessing you’re in UK?? A lot of priests are now getting tired of people wanting to attend church for a while in order to get their children into Catholic schools. He could just be suspicious and in all fairness, unless you and your partner are interested in raising your children in the faith and getting involved in community, I do not blame him.

Didn't notice you disagreeing. I thought it was a good discussion. lol

👍
glad to know I came across fare.
As did you I have to say, which i sometimes don’t often see on MN,

I'm just speaking what I believe to be factual about the teachings, and my own experience mixed in. I grew up in a more liberal Catholic environment. Drifted away, then went back for a bit. At that time I got to know a lot of what I would describe as much more traditional (legalistic?) Catholics. I was surprised to find out just how legalistic the Catholic Church is. I know most don't live their faith that way and that's their business, but the church teaches what it teaches. I don't believe anymore but I do enjoy discussing it as a topic of interest.

Agree. There are so many rules we are just not made aware of in the normal course of events.
For egs . I had never heard of transubstantiation ( spelling?) until I did History Alevel. I was shocked to learn that we as Catholics are supposed to believe that when we take the bread and wine we are supposed to really believe that it is the actual body and blood of Christ transformed by a miracle by the priest at mass. Did everyone know this except me?!

We learn more and more as we go on, from different places and different people and as RC has been around for some time there’s so much to learn, it is very interesting.

I find that Catholic churches can vary a great deal. The church that I attend is very friendly and progressive - there is coffee after the Sunday morning mass but not the Saturday evening one, and the priest always stays around to talk. He is very friendly and extrovert (some would say that he can talk the hind leg off a donkey), and his church rwflects his personality. Any newcomers would be invited to the coffee morning, and introduced to people (people who had agreed to this, not just randoms). This church also held LGBT friendly masses for those who preferred that,although as a bisexual woman I never felt unwelcome anywhere.
However, this church is in a large village where everyone knows eachother, which some people might find claustrophobic.
The chrch in the parish where I lived before was very different. No coffee afterwards,the priest left straight away, and nobody spoke to eachother at all.

I preferred the more friendly church, but I know that some people prefer the anonymity. I think it is great that there is a church that suits everybody.

I kind of knew about transubstantiation but not quite how literal it was supposed to be. One of the bigger surprises was learning that 3pm Good Friday Mass was an obligation, not an option. My parents just took us to the Stations of the Cross in the morning.

Yeah Catholics in England are verrrrrrrrrrry immigranty. And immigrants are more likely to be the ones who are in the church regularly, as opposed to special occasion attenders. You can always tell when people have no idea about the basic demographics.

phone the vatican get a hold of francis I and report their asses!!!!!

no seriously ur priest is being a total asshole and from what i know as a catholic this is not normal behaviour after mass and definately witha baptism request.
i really would go to him or his helper once more ask who the bishop is and go see him directly. if u could, can u maybe get ur old priest to use as a back up that u did attend at ur old house, even if not every week? x i would as well maybe ask to speak to the head of the school and get ur names out there and explained the situation too.

Fascinating thread!

I'm surprised so many people say 'if you won't get married what do you expect?' - this isn't my experience (agnostic but attend fairly frequently).

For very many people of all backgrounds, religion in general is about family heritage and community more than very clear beliefs and sticking to the rules.

Most cradle Catholics would see it as a priority for babies to be baptized - quite apart from the formal Church rules, which agree.

It's impossible to keep to all the rules perfectly - not just the family planning ones - so even the regularly practising don't generally bat an eyelid at single parenthood. Even the very elderly who are/were very devout have tended to change their views once they saw their children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren living differently.

It is possible that the OP has come across a very conservative priest. It's just much more likely that this is a case of nonexistent systems to manage anything beyond emergencies. Attendance is declining, accelerated by Covid - and yet people are entitled to rites of passage, so the workload is bigger than regular attenders would guess. They seem to be in constant firefighting mode.

Parishes are very badly run even if everyone tries and is kind and well-meaning. They are just not set up for it. Data capture is really poor - people rely on word-of-mouth. Which does mean that it's hard for outsiders to figure out how to get a baptism or wedding, unless they find people to ask face-to-face.

Priests are busier than they look and the rites of passage are a big priority - there are so many funerals!

If you do have a priest and parish helpers relying on face recognition that is a terrible system. Of course it fails!

There are synods being set up for the diocese I live in to ask what people want out of the church in future. This smacks of desperation because they can see that there will be almost no priests. But there will still be people wanting services.

On the lack of coffee/cake - I can't think of who would be able to organise this in our parish. There aren't enough volunteers and they couldn't staff a rota. People would like to be able to help but are run ragged.

On the short course/having to read the book - I've never had to do those - Catholicism is not big on rote learning or bible reading. There's a catechism, but it's been decades since people were expected to know it well. The religious content of religious instruction at Catholic schools is minimal beyond being kind to the marginalised like Jesus. Catholicism is also a lot less about having a deep personal relationship with a personal Jesus or God, than evangelical Christianity.

The grumpy/cold fish/socially awkward priest suggestion rings true - priests are often old, are worked long past retirement, and grew up in a world where they really believed they had special status. Deference to that perception of themselves is all gone as society has become very secular, and because of the scandals. Even the most devout attenders (especially among the younger generation) don't see priests as higher authorities, though they do tend to know how to act deferentially. It's just about possible the OP spoke to the priest in her best professional tone, and that pushed a button.

It's hopefully on the way out since the regularly practising are overwhelmingly female (except those collecting the cash - why?!), but the most elderly priests weren't raised or trained to fit a whole woman in their heads.

Who is to know what is really going on...but I guess you might look like a couple who simply want to get your child into the Catholic school. You are unmarried and haven't as yet had the school aged child baptised? (Don't know if that is right). If they are traditional and not very welcoming - not a 'tea and biscuits after mass' type of church then I guess this might be the problem. Also you said he was talking about lots of instruction before the Baptism..think he's testing you to see how serious you are. Would you continue to attend every Sunday if your child gets into the school?..I think that Priest thinks not. No judgement here..Im a very lapsed Catholic.

It differs according to parish or diocese, but pre-baptism courses are usually an opportunity to reflect on the role of faith in your life, and support for raising your child in a Catholic home. It also helps attendees understand baptism as a sacrament.

I don't see why any believing Catholic would object to being spiritually and theologically prepared for baptism - it's a big step.

A few of the comments on this thread make me wince - there's been an undercurrent of anti-Catholicism in British life for so long (as well as overt hostility obviously at certain times) that people just feel free to castigate some core beliefs and practices. Please don't criticise other people's religions - if you wouldn't criticise another faith (Judaism, Islam etc) then don't criticise Catholicism. Obviously there have been grievous failings on the part of the institutional Church many many times, but saying beliefs are 'out of touch' is just so strange.

Yes, but that’s what I’m am trying to say. In my CofE church the heart of everything if following the teachings of Christ. The church facilitates that. Not tue other way around.
Jesus taught us all to be accepting , loving and welcome anyone (poor, rich, and the most lowly sinners of all) for they are all gods children and equally worthy in the eyes of the lord.
This is literally the heart of what my church is all about.
Experiences like the one the OP has written about (and others ok this thread) is just so alien to me. Is this what some Catholic Churches are really like? I’ve never been to one but have been to many CofE churches over the years.

This is true. There's also still a covid backlog being worked through with weddings and baptisms, which doesn't help.

I also wonder which area the OP is in. Issues around baptism and school places are very different in, say, Zone 2 in London than they might be on a council estate in Liverpool.

Homily at my church. Tea and biscuits, mince pies at Xmas. Baptism welcome, parents need to attend a short course if first child being baptised. Love the priest, he's super friendly. Your experience is at odds with mine op. I'd get the Bishop involved. On the marriage thing, yes frowned upon, but a baby's baptism trumps that. It's not the baby's fault.

@nidgey Please don't criticise other people's religions - if you wouldn't criticise another faith (Judaism, Islam etc) then don't criticise Catholicism.

It's more unusual, but there are people who are quite involved without being believers in most religions. I was mostly describing my perceptions rather than criticising. However - I do think we're entitled to be critical if we're quite involved and can see what isn't working.

To say that beliefs and practice aren't always perfectly aligned isn't unfair. I do think Catholicism is more practice-centred rather than belief-centred compared with other denominations - that was one of the reasons for the Reformation!

Individual priests and parishes and churches will differ - but why wouldn't Catholicism be different from CoE? They're both Christian denominations but differ on some core beliefs and practices - the Reformation and all that...

Yep. A while ago there was an ultra orthodox Jewish ama, everyone was super respectful (as they should be) why can't people behave when it comes to RC?