Our local Catholic church doesn't want us there. I can't understand why

[BlueMediterranean]

Hi everyone,

I wanted to share an issue my partner and I have been facing at our local Catholic church and get your thoughts on it. We moved to a new city about a year and a half ago and bought a house here. The schools in the area are somewhat average, and the best one by far is a Catholic school. Being Catholics ourselves, we thought we wouldn't have any issues.

Initially, we didn't attend church because I was heavily pregnant, and after that, I experienced postpartum depression, which made it difficult for me to feel comfortable leaving the house with my baby. However, my partner started going to the evening mass on Sundays instead of the morning one. We officially registered with the church when we moved here.

After about 6-7 months, I joined him at the evening mass. From the very beginning, we found it strange that the priest never greeted anyone. As soon as he finished his sermon, he would disappear. Everyone would leave, and there was no socializing whatsoever.

One day, we went to talk to him about baptizing our baby, but he told us that he didn't know us well enough and asked us to continue attending the mass. We found this odd but decided to keep going. A few months later, we asked again, and he gave us the same response. In fact, he didn't remember us and thought we wanted to register as new members.

That's when we started to worry. If the priest never greets anyone and leaves immediately after the sermon, how can he get to know anyone? We could attend mass for years, and he wouldn't even know our names.

We had to rearrange some personal commitments to attend the Sunday morning mass to see if things were different, but he still doesn't greet anyone. We persisted in asking about the baptism and were given the contact information of a church volunteer who organizes the baptism course. Unfortunately, our emails to this person have gone unanswered, and when we asked in person, they claimed not to have received them.

I am truly baffled by all of this. Why does the church ignore us in this manner? I am now worried about how we'll obtain the necessary paperwork to register our daughter at the Catholic school if they won't even baptize her.

There must be a reason behind all of this, but I honestly can't comprehend it. I have considered volunteering, but both my partner and I work full-time jobs, which makes it challenging.

If anyone has any insights or suggestions, please share them. We would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you.

I’ve found Catholic churches to be quite unsociable compared to other Christian churches, and I’ve been to many of both.

Two of my children were baptised without me and my partner being married. We had to do a course, so many sessions to attend with other Catholic parents( and godparents as I recall but hardly any godparents went, because who has time on Saturday afternoons?). I did the baptism out of tradition as the family are Catholic. If I was to make a decision now, it would be a definite no I would not bother as during lockdown, not one person called a few very elderly, vulnerable parishiners after 80 years of them attending mass and helping weekly to boot. Nothing.I would not be botherered for my children to go to Catholic school. What would they gain from it?

Hi @BlueMediterranean

I was a single mother and my experience of the Catholic church is the complete opposite to yours. As many other posters have shared already, parish priests can vary in their 'strictness' to a significant degree.

In 40+ years of attending many Catholic churches across 3 continents, the priest/deacon/curate has never conducted a 'meet & greet' before mass. How long (if at all) they spend at the back of church after mass depends entirely on workload. My current parish priest covers three different churches, plus ministers to the sick and dying in their homes in addition to being on 24/7 call by the local hospital (in the event a dying person requests the last rites).

Baptism courses are not strange or unusual. In many parishes they are mandatory even when the parent(s) are very well known to the clergy.

My advice would be:

1. Check the church website or noticeboard to see if any of the services are designated the 'family' or 'children's' mass. If so, try to attend that one if you can. There will be lots of other parents & children there, no doubt a good percentage will end up at the school or even the same class as your child. These services are particularly good for babies and children as there is no expectation of silence.

1. Chase up the parish office again regarding the dates of the next Baptism course. If they are not answering emails, definitely give them a call.

1. If you haven't already, ask the priest from your last parish to write a letter to the new priest confirming that you were regular attendees.

1. If you're still getting nowhere with getting on the Baptism course, definitely escalate this to the bishop of your diocese.

At the mass you and your partner currently attend, do you participate fully (e.g. pray the Creed, go to Holy Communion/bring your child up for a blessing, kneel at the appropriate times etc?) Some priests might find it problematic if the parent(s) attention was solely focused on the baby throughout the entire service. Did you receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before receiving Holy Communion at the new church?

Just to add, the newsletter/website should show what parish events are coming up, e.g. summer fête, playgroups, afternoon tea gatherings, charity fundraisers etc. You'll be likely to find demonstrably welcoming people at this type of social activity.

All the best

They’re not losing parishioners because of apathy. I think far more likely because of the endless scandals and hiding of sexual predators mixed with a hideously patriarchal attitude to women.

I’m in the UK, Kent. Our local is very happy clappy.
The next nearest is very choral.

I’d have to disagree.
Catholics are used to all the ridicule, we’ve had it a long time.
They don’t leave their religion because of scandal either,
They don’t see anything wrong with women in the religion. It’s again what they’re used to.

I think it is down to apathy and to a certain extent the loss of some of the more traditional aspects of the church

I left my church after the priest was being a funny fish. He’d baptised both dds and was desperate for us to go each week and sign both up for schools (we weren’t bothered tbh as our local one in the next road was outstanding), though every time I took dds he’d make issues as to why we were there with young dc. I didn’t bother in the end as found him unfriendly and unwelcoming which is what all the locals found.
We married in this church too, so quite sad to be cutting ties.

Agree.
Always called it a sermon.
Im aware it can be referred to as the homily but that’s not normal in the UK.
Again that’s just part of the mass. The mass is the whole service.

I am not sure if op confirmed whether she is in the UK or not, I have read most of the thread but not all. I am in Ireland and in any Catholic church I have ever been in there was no meet and greet of any kind. You also don't Register at a church, you just show up. As for being unmarried I would say that at least half of babies being baptised have unmarried parents, probably more actually so that shouldn't be a problem. Baptisms are usually organised through the parish office and you usually have to go to a couple of meetings or do a short course. Just Google the number and ring them up to make an appointment. It sounds like the people in your church/area just aren't particularly friendly, perhaps you should look gor some other way to get to know people.

@GlucklicheTage i think many of my contemporaries are deeply worried by the endless stream of scandals actually. I think there was a deep resentment at the welcoming of CofE vicars who would not accept women priests. While our grandmothers and mothers may have been happy to squabble over who got to iron the vestments or clean the church I think my generation are fairly boot faced about women’s role in the Catholic Church. I think it is hard to feel it is Gods church given some of the horrors not just committed but covered up, denied and excused.

I aren't judging you OP, it's no big deal to me. Since you're unmarried, according to the Catholic Church you are living in mortal sin. That's serious and I don't think I ever experienced an unmarried couple in the Catholic church.

If one or both of you was married before, and it hasn't been properly annulled by the church (if it was valid in the eyes of the church in the first place), then you are in living in sin and not free to marry if you wanted to anyway.

I think you need to set up a meeting with the priest, via the office, and discuss where you stand. I don't think it should stop them baptising your baby but I'm not an expert on Canon Law. Just have been through the whole having to get our marriage properly recognised and blessed by the church ourselves, when we wanted to get our children baptised after being away for a while. I was surprised how strict and formal it actually was after having grown up a very liberal Catholic.

I'm RC in Ireland and have always called it a sermon. No meet and greet or socialising after Mass ( beyond chatting with neighbours outside the church as people leave). Never registered with a church. Children's baptisms organised through the local parish office, no course of study was neccessary ( last one was 10 years ago now though).

You don’t need to be married. I know unmarried parents with baptised children.

My guess is that they think you are going only for the school. They must get this a lot, and think you fit the regular pattern of people who do that.

Could you do something not very onerous to contribute that will help you get to know people, like suggesting you help arrange coffee after mass once a month?

I do agree.
But these worries are not new and we ve all stood outside the church and gossiped about the latest scandal or whatever but everyone’s still back in church and doing the flowers the next Sunday.

I don’t however think people are leaving the church over it. Which was the point really.

PS….You’re comment re mother and grandmother ironing the vestments struck a cord as mine made the vestments…..

I'm not a Catholic, but do find it quite odd that you are living with a guy for years on end, having children with him, with no intention of getting married, and expect the Catholic Church to take you seriously.

I'm aware that pointing this out is going to make me sound stuffy, but the reality is that marriage is usually protective for children and for the economically more vulnerable parent, who is usually the woman. Look at all the threads here on unmarried cohabiting women who are looking at a breakup and realising with dismay that they are not entitled to anywhere near as much financial protection as a wife would be.

Insisting on marriage is also a fair-ish test of how serious a guy is about commitment and fatherhood. No, marriages don't always work out, but statistically speaking, most cohabiting parents have split up by the time their eldest child is 15 - I think that speaks volumes. Conversely, most marriages last long-term these days. I think the Catholic Church is actually correct to value marriage and talk about how important it is.

My cousin is unmarried, three children, all baptised and first communion. Priest constantly around the house having a cup of tea.

We did not marry in church even though I’m Catholic. All our three have been baptised, First communion and Confirmation. No problem and the priest knew we didn’t get married in Church. ( different churches from cousin )

There are loads of unmarried couples at our new church too.
Two or three kids down the line they may get married or may not bother at all. It’s really not unusual.
Maybe the ones in your church have just put a ring on or something or maybe it’s extremely high church with a very strict priest.

You don't have to be married to have your child baptised, but you do have to prove you intend to raise your child RC. This is a little harder to prove when you don't follow the religion in your relationship. I.e not being married. You will both need to continue to attend courses and services to show your commitment.

I think it’s very much why people are leaving the church, but perhaps it’s just the people we know?

There are definitely unmarried couples in the community as there are thieves and liars and all sorts of sinners. It may be that OP is unable to marry him. Doesn’t explain why it’s so hard to baptise the kids.

We had instruction before we were married but not for baptism.

Maybe your parish is very liberal. Another priest may apply the rules more strictly. I don't think that they would withhold sacraments from your kids for not being married though. Or I hope not.

I got married in a Baptist church and it wasn't considered valid in the eyes of the Catholic church, since I was a baptised Catholic. Canon Law requires marriage in a Catholic church, or having a Catholic priest participate in the ceremony at another. I had no idea of this rule at the time.

I do consider myself validly married from the date of my marriage, not the Catholic blessing of it in retrospect. The Catholic church is surprisingly legalistic compared to what I knew when I grew up and 'living in sin', so to speak, is a mortal sin (whether I agree with that teaching or not).

No I quite agree
I really don’t understand why the priest seems to be obstructing things
Personally I’d move churches.

True the churches I’ve attended, and I’ve moved around a lot, could be quite liberal along with my cousins church too but I really don’t think so as we ve been parishioners to many and the services themselves are very traditional. (That’s the type we chose )

I think it’s much more common than you realise and I’ve never met a priest that would say (out loud ) any of them were ‘living in mortal sin’. Even though that’s what the Church officially regard it as.

However ,thinking about it more, if I heard a priest preach that at a sermon I’d be on my way to find another Church. Luckily I haven’t had to.

I think our experiences are obviously different, it’s a shame they can’t all be more accepting.

Possibly only interested in your money. I’d find a different church

I was wondering this. Call me a cynic, it sounds like they just want to get in to the school, especially as OP doesn't seem to see why their not being married might be problematic to a Catholic congregation.