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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think most men are degenerate if you dig down

363 replies

dontshootthefruit · 09/06/2023 17:16

That's it really. Could be pmt but...

I'm not sure MN helps change my mind, and yes, I know people don't post their happy stories.

My own experiences, that of most of my friends, the women on here. It's endless. I know there are some guys that are nicer than others. I know some that I consider good friends. I still wonder, deep deep down if they're all degenerate when it comes to sex.

Porn, prostitution, rough sex, casual assaults, etc. I listened to womens hour today discussing a new BBC doc about the widespread groping on the tube in Japan. What's most shocking to me is the fact they have sex clubs there that allow men to pay to replicate that kind of sexual assault (clubs decked out like train carriages full of prostitutes that appear to resist as part of the fun). Thing is, it's not a fringe activity, it's a "thing". I totally despair. I try to be positive, I have a partner, I have a daughter that's growing up fas, but push comes to shove... wouldn't trust one man that deeply when their sexuality calls.

Shoot me.😀

OP posts:
Knight900 · 09/06/2023 21:59

Incidentally some of the contributors on here are just demonstrating flagrant sexism but because it is targeted towards men - that’s OK apparently

talk about double standards!

IsThereAnEchoInHere · 09/06/2023 22:03

ElmTree22 · 09/06/2023 20:49

@IsThereAnEchoInHere

Isin’t it funny how men think many/most/all the other men are shit. Not them of course, they are the ’good one’s’.

Have you seen Promising Young Women, that movie depicts the "nice guy" syndrome really well!!

I have not.
I’ll check it out 👍🏻

HelpMeUnpickThis · 09/06/2023 22:14

JamSandle · 09/06/2023 20:27

Exactly.

Look at the titles of porn videos:

'Young s destroyed by big c'
'Ripe teen broken by step-dad'
'Teacher put in her place in orgy'

Many men have incredible aggressive sexual interests towards women. On the Internet where its not moderated, its laid bare (no pun intended) for all to see.

@JamSandle you make v strong points esp the sexual aggression.

Catsmere · 09/06/2023 22:37

Whether or not it’s most men, it’s far too many.

Lacucuracha · 09/06/2023 22:40

5128gap · 09/06/2023 21:51

They haven't really convinced anyone. Most of us know it for the nonsense it is. The people who come on these threads spouting it generally ARE MRAs.

Exactly. With a few hand maidens sprinkled in.

Lacucuracha · 09/06/2023 22:43

deathbyhayfever · 09/06/2023 19:43

But my original post said "fathers". I said that I would naturally trust a father with his own kids more than I would trust a lone female.

The point was that I would never teach my kids that male = possible danger, but female = safe. I don't agree with this.

The point didn’t need to be made because no one suggested teach your kids that female = safe.

I only said female = safer than male because you started throwing round niche scenarios that you would teach your children that man with kids = safer than woman. And you did that to try and draw attention from the fact that 82% of violent offenders are men.

Ponoka7 · 09/06/2023 22:52

krissy7 · 09/06/2023 20:27

Anyone who has worked in a male dominated environment knows this to be true. The bigger the ratio of men vs women, the more degenerate the men behave. And I've heard the conversations are even more revolting when no women are around.

The public example of that is the Met and a few fire services. The WA messages were only reported when women joined the teams.
The decency level for men is a lot lower than for women, so no doubt many will declare the men around them to be totally decent. As said it's them letting the bad behaviour go, making excuses or even joining in, that lets them down. In anonymous surveys, more men admit that they would rape women if they thought they could get away with it, than wouldn't. Then there's that thing if having to hear something three times from a woman, while once from a man would do. Watch the so call decent men when teen girls 12-15 are wearing shorts etc.

HangingOver · 09/06/2023 22:55

*Look at the titles of porn videos:

'Young s destroyed by big c'
'Ripe teen broken by step-dad'
'Teacher put in her place in orgy'*

Urrrgh it's grim I went on a porn site for the first time in about 10 years the other week and all the most viewed are now Step Father related whats that all about?

CampCroc · 09/06/2023 22:55

The older I get the more I think YANBU.

As a young adult I worked in a male dominated environment - the casual sexism and banter was disgusting, yet I put up with it and didn’t particularly see it because I was “one of the lads”.

Over the last few years I’ve seen many men in my life shirk their responsibilities as fathers and husbands, letting their wives/girlfriends shoulder the bulk of responsibility, even the so called good ones. In fact I don’t think I can name one man who equally co-parents his own children. I know one who has his children every other week, but his new wife does the majority of parenting during those days.

I’ve seen men I thought were good men behave like animals when they think there’s no one around to see.

I’ve seen so called decent men defend predators/rapists and suggest that women falsely reporting rape (which rarely happens) is far worse that a woman being raped.

I’ve seen far too many headlines describing killers as “misunderstood family man”, “respected part of the community” when he’s killed his wife and children. On the rare occasion that a woman commits a crime no one is in any doubt as to how awful she is, and it’s treated as far more serious as a man committing the same crime - with longer sentencing iirc.

I have 2 young adult sons, despite being brought up by decent parents with firm boundaries, strong parental controls, open and honest discussions about sexism, porn and other issues, both have had times of thinking misogynistic jokes are hilarious, behaving badly with friends. I’m under no illusions that despite strong controls they have both seen porn, and the strong message that these women are people’s daughters, sisters, mothers etc is easily ignored. The older son is growing up, and I’ve noticed an improved attitude. Secondary school was difficult, lots of awful behaviour from so many boys, accepted by so many girls, and ignored by so many teachers. I’m not sure any teenager could go through an environment like that and come out unscathed, but it’s very much behaviour from boys directed at girls, which girls are conditioned to accept.

Until there are strong decent male role models teaching boys from a young age, across different scenarios, because tackling from home alone isn’t going to cut it, it needs to be across the board - school, sports groups (all ages), work, in the gym, in the pub - men need to stand up to banter, locker room talk, whatever you want to call it. At the moment this doesn’t happen, so women are hurt by this male behaviour - dehumanising us, minimising our roles in society, but then women are hurt by other women shutting down this sort of discussion.

I think many mothers here are naive as to the power and influence the internet and friends have in the teenage years, and I’m afraid I view these decent respectful sons who have been brought up so well as the same as the skinny 6’2 sons that so many MNers have - largely embellished bordering on mythical.

I base my opinions on my own personal experiences. 20 years ago I didn’t know anything. I would have been here fighting on behalf of poor misunderstood men, now it’s like a big obvious slap in the face, and once you’ve seen it you can’t unsee it.

JamSandle · 09/06/2023 23:01

HangingOver · 09/06/2023 22:55

*Look at the titles of porn videos:

'Young s destroyed by big c'
'Ripe teen broken by step-dad'
'Teacher put in her place in orgy'*

Urrrgh it's grim I went on a porn site for the first time in about 10 years the other week and all the most viewed are now Step Father related whats that all about?

No idea but deeply disturbing. Apparently stepfather/stepdaughter is one of the most commonly searched categories of porn after teen.

MsCactus · 09/06/2023 23:04

I don't think this is true - there's lots of asexual men or men who want or care about sex less than female partners.

Men being obsessed with sex is just a stereotype.

That being said, there are of course creepy/awful men, and they seem to be more entitled than women with that inclination.

dontshootthefruit · 09/06/2023 23:04

ensayers · 09/06/2023 18:11

Men need to empty their nuts one way or another. Better to be single and watch porn every day with a box of kleenex than to have a bad, one sided or abusive relationship with another human.

Or are you saying that all porn is bad?

Urgh....

And yes

OP posts:
dontshootthefruit · 09/06/2023 23:05

coxesorangepippin · 09/06/2023 18:30

I genuinely don’t know any degenerate men or men who speak in a derogatory way about women or sexualise them

^

Really??

I know!

OP posts:
Catchasingmewithspiders · 09/06/2023 23:06

deathbyhayfever · 09/06/2023 21:41

it's a big reverse leap from "all men are degenerate"!

Yes I have witnessed some mild sexism. As I have witnessed women thinking it's cute to pride themselves in knowing nothing about cars, women who could not possibly hold a drill and that Ikea furniture are a man's job, women who firmly believe that their man shouldn't come anywhere THEIR kitchen or that it's uncouth for women to be seen on football pitch, or that it would be outrageous to expect a mother to be sent abroad for a couple of days (but normal for another parent because he's male).

Believe me, these women's attitude, some of them very young, pisses me off a lot more than the men's sexism frankly.

Nothing to do with men being degenerate and a menace however, just proof that men and women are as bad as each other!

so you hold women to higher standards?

I've worked with me who have claimed women who have been raped just like it rough, placed bets on who they can shag in the office first and watched men in their 30s trying to bully 18 year olds into sleeping with them

Pretty sure I will take women knowing nothing about cars and never holding a drill over that.

Catchasingmewithspiders · 09/06/2023 23:08

HangingOver · 09/06/2023 22:55

*Look at the titles of porn videos:

'Young s destroyed by big c'
'Ripe teen broken by step-dad'
'Teacher put in her place in orgy'*

Urrrgh it's grim I went on a porn site for the first time in about 10 years the other week and all the most viewed are now Step Father related whats that all about?

Men wanting to fantasise about assaulting young women they are in a position of power over. But obviously it's her own fault because she totally led him on🙄🤮

Lacucuracha · 09/06/2023 23:13

Catchasingmewithspiders · 09/06/2023 23:08

Men wanting to fantasise about assaulting young women they are in a position of power over. But obviously it's her own fault because she totally led him on🙄🤮

Or the man is let off because she was drunk and then dead at his hands, so she is unable to be a witness to her rape and death.

Reminds me of the man who raped a woman so badly with a bottle of bleach that she died, he was let off.

Regholdsworthswaterbed · 09/06/2023 23:18

I really disagree. Perhaps I've just been lucky but honestly I've never met any men like this and I've certainly had my fair share. My dad and my brother have so much respect for women. My DB no longer speaks to his former best friend after he left his wife and child. My DH will cross the road if walking behind a woman after dark to try and put her at ease. I just can't relate to this at all.

Catchasingmewithspiders · 09/06/2023 23:19

Lacucuracha · 09/06/2023 23:13

Or the man is let off because she was drunk and then dead at his hands, so she is unable to be a witness to her rape and death.

Reminds me of the man who raped a woman so badly with a bottle of bleach that she died, he was let off.

All the men who use the "she liked rough sex" excuse when in reality the likelihood of a woman wanting sex so rough it's got a high chance of death is slim and it's not like the men don't have a choice to refuse to do that

Lacucuracha · 09/06/2023 23:24

Regholdsworthswaterbed · 09/06/2023 23:18

I really disagree. Perhaps I've just been lucky but honestly I've never met any men like this and I've certainly had my fair share. My dad and my brother have so much respect for women. My DB no longer speaks to his former best friend after he left his wife and child. My DH will cross the road if walking behind a woman after dark to try and put her at ease. I just can't relate to this at all.

Have you been living under a rock?

Lacucuracha · 09/06/2023 23:24

Catchasingmewithspiders · 09/06/2023 23:19

All the men who use the "she liked rough sex" excuse when in reality the likelihood of a woman wanting sex so rough it's got a high chance of death is slim and it's not like the men don't have a choice to refuse to do that

Agreed. But the judges fall for it.

Rainbowsandfairies · 09/06/2023 23:26

Dacadactyl · 09/06/2023 17:45

I agree.

I totally agree with this! OP -you're definitely not being unreasonable xx

deathbyhayfever · 09/06/2023 23:33

Catchasingmewithspiders · 09/06/2023 23:06

so you hold women to higher standards?

I've worked with me who have claimed women who have been raped just like it rough, placed bets on who they can shag in the office first and watched men in their 30s trying to bully 18 year olds into sleeping with them

Pretty sure I will take women knowing nothing about cars and never holding a drill over that.

I don't hold women to higher or lower standard, that would be absurd to pretend a vagina or a penis gives any superiority.

You are taking my reply out of. its context. I never pretended I never witnessed some mild sexism from both sides, but I am not surrounded by degenerate men sexualising women either. I don't believe for a second men are degenerate in nature, and I disagree with posters who pretend some men are just better at hiding it than others.

Lacucuracha · 09/06/2023 23:38

deathbyhayfever · 09/06/2023 23:33

I don't hold women to higher or lower standard, that would be absurd to pretend a vagina or a penis gives any superiority.

You are taking my reply out of. its context. I never pretended I never witnessed some mild sexism from both sides, but I am not surrounded by degenerate men sexualising women either. I don't believe for a second men are degenerate in nature, and I disagree with posters who pretend some men are just better at hiding it than others.

I can’t believe you said men and women are as bad as each other. 97% of people who kill their partners are men.

Women are scared men will kill them. Like @Catchasingmewithspiders , I’d take women knowing nothing about cars and never holding a drill over that.

deathbyhayfever · 09/06/2023 23:41

You'd have thought it would be a positive that not everybody (if not the majority) of women haven't got any experience of sexual violence or male violence in general.

It's interesting it's causing some very strong and nasty reactions - why is that?
Can't your narrative really not cope with positive stories, and accounts of average but decent men?

Welliehead · 09/06/2023 23:43

Regholdsworthswaterbed · 09/06/2023 23:18

I really disagree. Perhaps I've just been lucky but honestly I've never met any men like this and I've certainly had my fair share. My dad and my brother have so much respect for women. My DB no longer speaks to his former best friend after he left his wife and child. My DH will cross the road if walking behind a woman after dark to try and put her at ease. I just can't relate to this at all.

Nor can I.

I have lots of really close male friends plus a great dh.