To think most men are degenerate if you dig down

[dontshootthefruit]

That's it really. Could be pmt but...

I'm not sure MN helps change my mind, and yes, I know people don't post their happy stories.

My own experiences, that of most of my friends, the women on here. It's endless. I know there are some guys that are nicer than others. I know some that I consider good friends. I still wonder, deep deep down if they're all degenerate when it comes to sex.

Porn, prostitution, rough sex, casual assaults, etc. I listened to womens hour today discussing a new BBC doc about the widespread groping on the tube in Japan. What's most shocking to me is the fact they have sex clubs there that allow men to pay to replicate that kind of sexual assault (clubs decked out like train carriages full of prostitutes that appear to resist as part of the fun). Thing is, it's not a fringe activity, it's a "thing". I totally despair. I try to be positive, I have a partner, I have a daughter that's growing up fas, but push comes to shove... wouldn't trust one man that deeply when their sexuality calls.

Shoot me.😀

I agree with you here to an extent. But it would be interesting to know figures in terms of women trafficked into the industry.

@AnnaKareninnit

The views on here are skewed by the kinds of (largely man-hating) women who use this forum.

Ever wondered why these women are "man-hating"
This isn't a MN issue, this is a real world issue. If you don't believe that then you have been privileged to have lived a life where the men you've met have been decent!

And I dont hate men.

I just want women and girls to be safe. The fact they aren't makes me angry.

That was exactly what I thought when I read that🤣🤣🤣

@Screamingabdabz I can deny that because it isn't my experience, or that of the huge majority of my family and friends.

But the kinds of men I'm related to or friends with aren't the kinds of men whom someone mentioned upthread - men who get together with groups of other "laddish" men. The men in my lives would sooner poke their eyes out than go on a stag night, for instance, in the same way that the women in my life have never been, and would never go, to a hen party.

What I do have a problem with is someone describing women talking about their experiences with men as TOXIC.

I don't think that's what said. It's women deciding that men are degenerate because they are men that is a toxic attitude, not the fact that someone had a factually terrible experience.

Look at the post just below yours:

some women believe their husbands, fathers, brothers, sons etc are good men, because they don't see the other side of them.

Many men act decent and lovely when their family is around, but as soon as they're gone their personality does a 180, especially when showing off among other men. They will treat women how they like (...)

doesn't that sound like an unhealthy attitude and a strange view of the world?

Same here, I love men. Some of my favourite people in the world are men, I love them dearly and they're incredible people. You don't have to hate men to acknowledge the reality and be saddened by it.

The reality is as well is that whoever we are we just see a certain side of somebody. Boys and men don't act the same in front of their parents, their partners as they would with others; same goes for women too of course, you can never truly know absolutely everything about everyone.

Over the last 10 years I have had 3 men I have known for years (former boss I stayed in touch with, work colleague of 8+ years, friend from group formed 30 years ago) all invite me to have affairs with them. I am the least flirty person you would find, gave up on finding a decent man to have a relationship with years ago and have been single 13+ years. I truly think it was a case of 'you are single, I will give it a go'. All so-called happily married men. All gave the same crap excuses - wife doesnt understand, we dont have sex anymore, I cant leave just yet - it is truly disgusting. I am obviously not in touch with any of them any more, but it hsa been so depressing.

Perfectly put and summarised.

YABU - none of the men in my life have been "degenerate", and I believe all my friends would say the same. If a man wrote a thread saying they thought most women were x/y/z imagine how many posters would pile on to shoot him down in flames. So many on MN seem to hate men - so why on earth do you date/live with/marry them? It's not compulsory you know.

I’m the same. My family and friends are the same as your experience. But I believe they’re the exception rather than the rule.

@JamSandle

I don't hate MEN, my father and my husband are wonderful people.
That being said I have been unlucky enough to experience the other kind of man, like so many other people. Quite honestly I should hate men, as should a lot of other women. I am aware there are some exceptions to the rule. But the statistics speak for themselves really.

It's true in some cases though (I suspect in many but can only be sure where I've witnessed it myself). I don't agree it's a 180 or that their entire personality shifts, but absolutely see a stark difference in how many men I've worked and lived with (with work) are when deployed and how they are 'back home'. The former they can be their truer selves I suppose.

Hmm. It's funny, in that case, that we as two completely random strangers should have had the same good experience. It would tend to suggest that there are more decent men around than most women on MN would have us believe!

If women were all judged on the behaviour of the particular sub-category of 'women who go on hen nights/get revoltingly drunk and pee in doorway/ shag random men/ throw up in taxis/ judge potential partners on the size of their dicks or their wallet (and so on)', then womanhood as a whole might be found wanting.

Fortunately we all know that - apart from our immutable biological apparatus - being a woman involves a more or less endless variety of attitudes, behaviours, personalities, backgrounds, education, experiences and so on ad infinitum.

Just like being a man, really.

We don’t hate them, we are scared of them.

Doesn't seem all that strange to me.

From personal experience, and experiences of women very close to me. I know of a couple men who did terrible things that went unreported and unpunished. For various reasons. These men are now seemingly happily married with children of their own.
Their spouses will never know of what their wonderful husbands did, and their children will more than likely idolise these men. They act like doting husbands and fathers, but they had very different sides.
So now that not an unhealthy view of the world, sounds more like another women who has experienced something different to you.

Never heard them use the words slut, slag or tart?

Never heard them refer to female bosses or politicians as bitches?

Never made assumptions about who is cooking or cleaning or organising at family gatherings.

Always take equal responsibility for their children and know their birthdays/shoe sizes/ preferences etc

Organise Xmas and birthday celebrations and presents.

This is the mild stuff I was referring to. This is the thin edge of the wedge of my experiences.

Nor for one second do I expect any reply that doesn't contradict the above, so all I can say is congratulations on finding men I could never find.

The point was that I would never teach my kids that male = possible danger, but female = safe. I don't agree with this.

I agree. The same way I'd agree with not telling children that white people = possible danger, other people = safer just because you're the same.

most people are degenerate if you dig down. Males don't have a monopoly on character weakness.

I think a lot of men are parented very differently to female counterparts and then treated differently in society etc and then become a product of their upbringing so to speak. My dh I honestly couldn't fault he's the most respectful man I know second to my dad. But then he grew up in a house with a father who stepped up and made sure his sons saw how well he treated his mother and how it was OK to express emotions and not shy away from difficult conversations and continously try to self improve. Dh now does the same in his relationship with me and because my dad did the same for my mother I wouldn't tolerate anything less. I think just labelling men as inherently degenerate firstly is very depressing because you're suggesting they've no capacity to learn change or do better and that they've no autonomy and secondly absolves society, patriarchal structuring and generational socialising of any responsibility never mind the responsibility on the individual to hold themselves to account never mind society holding them accountable. If that was truly the case then why argue that women shouldn't have to dress modestly to be mindful of male gaze... poor fellas can't help it. Etc etc.

Noone is purely good or bad everyone is a combination and we need to be pushing men to step up and do better and be teaching our sons to be responsible and accountable and aware of their privilege.

On a societal level, absolutely 100% agree.

it's a big reverse leap from "all men are degenerate"!

Yes I have witnessed some mild sexism. As I have witnessed women thinking it's cute to pride themselves in knowing nothing about cars, women who could not possibly hold a drill and that Ikea furniture are a man's job, women who firmly believe that their man shouldn't come anywhere THEIR kitchen or that it's uncouth for women to be seen on football pitch, or that it would be outrageous to expect a mother to be sent abroad for a couple of days (but normal for another parent because he's male).

Believe me, these women's attitude, some of them very young, pisses me off a lot more than the men's sexism frankly.

Nothing to do with men being degenerate and a menace however, just proof that men and women are as bad as each other!

Well that's the same side of the coin...women are rewarded for conforming to stereotypes.

You have just proved the point 🙄

They haven't really convinced anyone. Most of us know it for the nonsense it is. The people who come on these threads spouting it generally ARE MRAs.

OP - I think your opinion is frankly disgraceful. How on earth are young men supposed to grow up and thrive emotionally in such a toxic, anti-male environment.

I am not entirely sure you are a genuine contributor with such awful prejudice

you need to check yourself