Elderly needy parents + young needy kids - arghhh!!

[PlumPudd]

What do we owe to our parents / what responsibility do we have to them and what do they in return owe / have a responsibility towards us and our little kids?

I expect this is a common issue in my age group (mid 30’s). I’ve got little kids, who I love more than life itself, but who need most of my and my partners time / care / worry and attention. I also have a job, a partner, a mortgage, health worries, friends who I’d sometimes like to see, the need to occasionally have five minutes to myself to read a book etc.

However at the same time I’m raising my tiny kids my parents have been switching from relatively independent adults, to querulous, feeble (their words) old folks who want me to show them how to use the internet and book appointment for them, spend endless hours listening to their fears and grumbles about each other, their health, politics, media bias, how awful young people are today, how expensive their heating bill is (not as bloody expensive as mine) etc. and seem to feel that their time to look after has ended and their time to be looked after has begun and that it’s my responsibility to do this.

All this at a time when I’d really value still getting a bit of support and a listening ear from them as I look after a baby and a toddler, struggle to afford life, balance work, manage my own health etc. I know they got this support from their (admittedly slightly younger) parents, my grandparents, and that in theory they’d like to give it to me, but they seem unable / unwilling to.

In principle I agree that your parents should look after you and you should in turn look after your parents when they get old. But what are we all supposed to do when (because everyone is having kids later and living longer) our parents get old, grumpy and in need at the same time that we ourselves need their support in the difficult years with very young kids, or don’t have the time and energy to look after them and our kids together?!?!?

Not really looking for an answer to this (hypothetical) question, just offloading…

Guessing your relationship with your parents isn't the best?
My parents brought me up and I'm sad that they're no longer here. We obviously had very different upbringing.
Parents drive us mad at times but it really hurts like hell when they're gone

This is a good point actually. My dad was very tech savvy and used his laptop or iPad for everything, including his hobbies, voluntary work and part time job. He went blind suddenly at 75 following an accident, and his life as he knew it was basically over. His lack of access to “his computers” was his biggest frustration about going blind, and he couldn’t get the hang of adaptive technology at all.

As a single mum to 3 kids and am elderly parent, I find myself pulled in many ways.
My mum had a serious health scare, during covid and afterwards and I've aged badly in that time. I didn't sleep well at all for 12 months due to worry and stress. She relied on me for everything in that time. Meanwhile I was dealing with a divorce and 3 teenagers, a dog and a job.
I'm not the person I used to be.
I myself have no support and feel the weight of it all on me as I try and navigate a SN diagnosis for one child as well.
Recently my mum has suggested that I don't know how hard she had it. I found that very hurtful.
I think as you age you do become selfish and your world becomes smaller so you rely on what and who you know when you were more able.

I have actually banned my DF from 'talking', (ranting) about the "4 P's"
Politics
Politicians
Potholes and
Pigeons

I love him dearly, despite health issues, the worry of my DM going so suddenly down hill etc, he can still be great fun, the life and soul of the party, however he is bored, was a very successful business man, still has a toe in the water in the city. However, gardening, taking care of mum etc just isn't enough for his brain. We get it, but its still bloody hard work at times.

This is basically the consequence of people having children too late. My parents are in their early 70s and I am in my 50s. My children are adults. So there's not much sandwich-ing going on.

If everyone has children in their 30s and, in some cases, 40s, it's inevitable that you end up with young children and elderly parents simultaneously. I am sorry I didn't have my children in my early 20s.

All these comments about fit as fiddle parents in their 80s doing daily triathlons and looking “ askance “ at suggestions of help! You do realise that such sneering and crowing doesn’t make them “ right” and others “ wrong “. My parent was very fit at 73 , gym , cycling , reading, internet savvy. Until they weren’t and a pile of illnesses wiped them off their feet in less than a year. Unable to walk, speak or eat. In the space of 9 months they died. So please realise that some people in their older years will experience swift and devastating declines, losing everything they had before: dignity, independence, joy and happiness. It’s really not a case of those old folk needing to try a bit harder to be independent. Dementia can start off with the anxieties, the repetitive discourse on the same topics , the worry about doing new things or even things they used to do^

This is so true, some are hit by lightning, decline & become dependent in months & some an intentionally needy.
No-one is the same.
My H if 68 yrs old had a stroke, he "looks" fine, but in reality he is totally dependent on me now, like a 7 year old child

How old can they be...I'm early thirties and my parents are 55...even if they had you late they surely can't be older than mid 60s?!

I really sympathise OP. I had my children quite young but still feel a big responsibility to care for both my parents and my grandparents (who we are so lucky to still have with us). It is relentless, and it’s difficult to not hold resentment when you know your own parents had a considerable amount more help than you’re getting now.

OP - that conversation with your dad sounds exactly like how my calls with my mum are! It’s infuriating!

OP said she was mid-30s so assume 35. If her parents had her at 35 they're 70. If they had her at 40 they're 75. As people have kids (and less of them) later in life this is what happens.

People have kids later, still feeling fit and healthy at 40 - which is great! But don't necessarily consider that if their child makes the same choice they will be 80 and needing care at the same time when their child is in the thick of the hard child rearing years and have least time to do so.

HOW is that an even remotely helpful thing to say?

It all depends on how old they are and how good their health is as to how tolerant you are of their neediness. I agree Covid made things a lot worse. Older people were terrified of catching it and some stopped socialising altogether.

It's funny about the tech thing.

My mum who is 79 now (and to a certain extent my dad too) is completely glued to her phone. Since she got a smartphone about 12 years ago, which is the entirety of my kids lives nearly, she's been absorbed in social media/texting/messaging/calling people. She wakes around with the phone in one hand - no kidding. When she visits she is glued to the phone, takes calls during dinner - drives me nuts and it has really deteriorated our relationship as you can imagine to the extent that she doesn't ask me about my life now, just interested in her phone friends.

So be careful what you wish for!!

My late DM died young.I didn't have help with childcare. I had my last DD at 41, second marriage. I worked FT nights and looked after my GS born the following year, while my oldest DD and partner went out socially. She was meant to reciprocate, but was unreliable. I looked after him, overnight for 12 years,he was a nightmare, spoilt. My DF was terminally ill, when my DD was 9, he had remarried,but his wife had to go and look after her DM in her 90s, twice a week. I drove 40 miles, after a night shift to look after him, while she was out. I have looked after my oldest DS 2 DD at this time, while him and his partner worked shifts.I also have a DS 30 miles away, rapid cycle bi polar,I am carer for. I have also looked after youngest DD kids for 13 years. I'm now 72, a year ago, I was running,hill walking 2/3 hours with the dogs, using a gym. Suddenly,in the past 12 months I have all these health problems,none of which is age related. Some days I can hardly put one foot in front of the other. My DKs forget this. Helped oldest DD 52 move a few months ago, told her I can't lift (cystocele) what a joke.The 2 girls left home early,her 16, live in job, they should be self sufficient, but it's always good ol'mum.

I completely get where you’re coming from. I have promised my kids that I will never be a ‘needy’ older person (hate the word elderly as it’s more a mindset than an age to me). I am a very youthful 60 something whose own mother became very needy barely older than I am now. Even if my health fails I will never be a drain to my kids. I learn new things (currently learning a foreign language), I have changed my eating habits and my outlook is naturally glass half full. I never want my kids to see me as a chore. I’ll embrace older but never elderly.

@grazeeeee

who wants to have kids in their early twenties?! Most people have other stuff they’d rather be doing at that age. Not to mention who could afford to have kids at that age!

I think realistically when you have older parents and you have kids a later age, this what happens.

@PlumPudd so when you're older will you be sorting out your own needs and not replying on your kids at all? Even when you're health declines, will you be getting help in? carers? putting yourself in a home so they are not a burden to you

Im sure someone may have already said this but I have not read the full thread.
Be thankful you still have your parents!! I am 29 and have just lost my Father. I would do anything to have him again.
I appreciate some people do have some awful upbringings and awful parents but if your parents are the type to support you where they can then its nice to reciprocate.

Yes. Age Concern reckon 42% of people over 75 have no access/don't use the Internet not only because of lack of skills but more importantly because of lack of money to buy phones/laptops/pay for internet. A problem that hugely disadvantages poor children's education too.

Universal free internet access is vital if we are to tackle the huge inequality of opportunity in society.

Similarly not all people have access to cards because of past/present money problems etc.

This must be frustrating. We're not quite at that point with our parents but I am starting to feel that I have to "explain" quite a lot about how the world now operates as I get comments like "I've never done that" and "I don't know how to do it" when doing anything new or things like arranging a new broadband provider. It places an emotional burden and a worry about next few years. I remember my mother doing literally everything for my gran and I don't want it to be the same dynamic! We get next to no help with our young toddler so it doesn't feel like the support is going both ways.

OP, I sympathise with you and your parents.

You have a lot on your plate and it sounds as if your parents are a bit moany and negative. However, the world is getting harder to negotiate for those who weren't brought up with high-tech everything-having-to-be-done-online. I sympathise with people finding it intimidating or even frightening, and your mother getting you to do blow-by-blow instructions for her accounts.

The thing is, they say that the thing we all tend to lose as we get older is our senses of humour. I don't just mean when really old, but a lot of my friends lost theirs when their kids were small and they got no sleep also. Or saw the world as more threatening. We also have a 24 hr news cycle and the internet that tends to push our fears at us continually or only report on negative things. If our lives get smaller (even temporarily) due to responsibilities, inability to get out and about or even things like mobility issues, we can end up feeling bombarded by that negative input which isn't counteracted by positive interactions in real life. I actually think that what you describe with having to do everything online now makes this worse. It might be more convenient in some ways. But it can confuse those not used to it and it makes the whole world seem impersonal and we miss those personal interactions which can be good for us - at the bank or booking a train ticket at the station. It's all going.

My suggestion would be to try and find some more humour in the situation and not to allow their harping on to bring you down. Maybe react more with humour rather than being ground down or cross with them. How about just agreeing that whatever story is awful and then moving on rather than refusing to tell him speak about topics? Or if you don't agree with him, how about "I hear you" to acknowledge. Or even "yes there's awful things in the world - but let's not concentrate on that did you hear about X (more cheerful) story?".

If your mother is being talked through endless online things, maybe she can do a course - there are things for silver surfers etc. Or else if it's a bank and stressful for her that way, the bank should be able to talk her through it on the phone or she could maybe change bank to one that can.

Your parents sound in a bit of a bubble and the world is moving on and frightening them. The answer to that is a bit more getting out there and real interactions, not just retreating and then everything becomes more internet based and frightening to them.

In terms of what you owe them, if they have been good and loving parents I do think we owe them care and a bit of help etc. But if your interactions are dragging you down, maybe find things that take them out of themselves - maybe getting them out and about, visiting a beautiful place, or just teasing them a bit (if they don't take offense to that). Trying to break the tension by seeing the humour in life a little more. Not just the grind.

My mum gave a lot of help to my grandparents and helped my older siblings with the grandchildren, but she went part-time by 50 and was retired at 60.

In my 50s and 60s I will be working full time.

By the time I retire in 25 years my mother will be 99.

But looking on the bright side, life expectancy in the U.K. is going backwards, excess deaths are higher than pre-pandemic, and our government isn't doing enough about climate change so we're both less likely to get there than previous generations.

When you’re older your kids could be living in Australia so I don’t think it’s ever a good idea to include your adult children in your care plans. Imo.

Does anyone know of any remote software for Apple?

We used to be able to go in on my parents laptop but they have an iPad now.