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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Elderly needy parents + young needy kids - arghhh!!

300 replies

PlumPudd · 09/06/2023 14:05

What do we owe to our parents / what responsibility do we have to them and what do they in return owe / have a responsibility towards us and our little kids?

I expect this is a common issue in my age group (mid 30’s). I’ve got little kids, who I love more than life itself, but who need most of my and my partners time / care / worry and attention. I also have a job, a partner, a mortgage, health worries, friends who I’d sometimes like to see, the need to occasionally have five minutes to myself to read a book etc.

However at the same time I’m raising my tiny kids my parents have been switching from relatively independent adults, to querulous, feeble (their words) old folks who want me to show them how to use the internet and book appointment for them, spend endless hours listening to their fears and grumbles about each other, their health, politics, media bias, how awful young people are today, how expensive their heating bill is (not as bloody expensive as mine) etc. and seem to feel that their time to look after has ended and their time to be looked after has begun and that it’s my responsibility to do this.

All this at a time when I’d really value still getting a bit of support and a listening ear from them as I look after a baby and a toddler, struggle to afford life, balance work, manage my own health etc. I know they got this support from their (admittedly slightly younger) parents, my grandparents, and that in theory they’d like to give it to me, but they seem unable / unwilling to.

In principle I agree that your parents should look after you and you should in turn look after your parents when they get old. But what are we all supposed to do when (because everyone is having kids later and living longer) our parents get old, grumpy and in need at the same time that we ourselves need their support in the difficult years with very young kids, or don’t have the time and energy to look after them and our kids together?!?!?

Not really looking for an answer to this (hypothetical) question, just offloading…

OP posts:
Tots678 · 12/06/2023 06:38

Look at how much your DPs did for their parents. This was mentioned in a Harriet Lerner self-help book. Turned out, when I thought about it, my DM had done nothing for her DM as it was left to her sister. Yet expected a lot of me. This helped me put in boundaries.
I think in older people (I am one) that confidence and self -esteem make a big difference - so if you were an outgoing confident person with a busy social life you will probably continue in that way into old age. But health problems can greatly affect that.

Twiglets1 · 12/06/2023 06:48

Sounds painful @PlumPudd

People in their 70s shouldn't be so dependent on their children, unless they have an illness or disability.

My Dad is in his mid 80s and understandably perhaps struggles with IT but his partner got lessons when she was in her 70s so she can now use the internet, email, mobile phones etc. There are free lessons available for elderly people so no excuse really to say it's all beyond them because they consider themselves old at 70.

OnsenBurner · 12/06/2023 06:52

You need to put in boundaries as pp have said. My dad. I used to call him
once a week for an hour and did the housework wearing headphones while he grumbled on about Boris Johnson and other stuff. I don’t like my dad at all and it was the only effort I was prepared to put in.

if you work the constant phone calls are just too much.

Twiglets1 · 12/06/2023 06:56

Tots678 · 12/06/2023 06:38

Look at how much your DPs did for their parents. This was mentioned in a Harriet Lerner self-help book. Turned out, when I thought about it, my DM had done nothing for her DM as it was left to her sister. Yet expected a lot of me. This helped me put in boundaries.
I think in older people (I am one) that confidence and self -esteem make a big difference - so if you were an outgoing confident person with a busy social life you will probably continue in that way into old age. But health problems can greatly affect that.

I agree with that sentiment and if I look at what my in laws did for their parents, it wasn't much. My MIL moved to the other end of the country from her family so effectively did next to nothing and my FIL put his mother straight into a care home when she became a bit too needy. This was despite them living only 15 minutes away from her and her only needing a quick visit every couple of days to check on her (they were both retired).

They are pretty needy themselves now and complain if my SIL who lives locally doesn't visit them for a few days. Mind you, she is tough and takes no notice. They haven't been the caring sort at any stage in their own lives so to an extent, you reap what you sow.

Nikii83 · 12/06/2023 07:01

Poppasocks · 09/06/2023 17:07

I'll probably get slaughtered... but this is one of the many reasons I moved 3 hours away from mine...

Not slaughtered at all my brother lives near by and is inundated with request to be taken to various appointments.

me I moved 4 hours away to the countryside 20 years ago

mine are mid sixties and it’s a tail of two halves dad still working full time, goes out 2/3 nights a week with his friends.

mum retired this year and since I feel like has given up doesn’t leave the house, doesn’t make plans with friends. Health has declined as not active at all.

only thing mum will do online is make doctors appointments…

Shortstufflady · 12/06/2023 07:30

My father suddenly developed severe Alzheimer’s at 67 and was put in a home because he became violent towards my mum. This left my mum on her own with all his business to run, a huge garden of ten acres and a home. She is 70 now and tries her best to be independent but obviously she needs help. She was with dad for 50 years. She needs company. Myself and my brothers still work full time. I do 12 hours a day as a childminder, but I still make time for my parents. My motto is treat others as you would like to be treated.

FangsForTheMemory · 12/06/2023 07:36

My mother went to computer classes in her 60s and learnt how to use the internet. In her 80s she was doing online shops for her neighbours. Your parents could learn how to use the internet if you weren’t available to do it for them.

Teateaandmoretea · 12/06/2023 07:38

I think unless they are very frail and unwell older adults should behave and be treated as adults.

My father is late 70s and he actually wants to be considered as an independent adult in the family rather than going back to child-like status. I don’t think infantalising older people is good for anyone. I wonder if Covid has made this worse.

Teateaandmoretea · 12/06/2023 07:41

@Nikii83 omg they aren’t even old 🤦🏻‍♀️

Teateaandmoretea · 12/06/2023 07:45

My motto is treat others as you would like to be treated.

This surely goes both ways? If she can’t manage the 10-acres now then expecting her children to do it is selfish and not sustainable. I wouldn’t do that to my children.

Xmasbaby11 · 12/06/2023 07:50

I think it makes a massive difference how early/well they are when they start using tech. It does get harder to learn new things but if you're already used to tech, it's much easier. My PiL in their eighties never worked with computers and never felt the need to get a mobile phone or computer or anything - they don't even use cashpoints, only cash and cheques. They have let themselves fall behind because SiL has done everything for them. There's no way they could learn now because they haven't developed the concepts or the core skills.

DM is 85 and has had an ipad for 10 years but struggles with it, also has simple doro phone that she can manage, couldn't get her head around a smartphone as it's too complicated and too much to remember. Even when she was 70 she wasn't great with tech. She was never interested in tech or used it in work either. She is now going blind and possibly develiping dementia and the tech would have really helped her but she can't learn anything new now.

DP otoh did use a computer for one, has one at home and has kept up his tech skills. He needs the odd bit of help but can manage fine.

cobicat · 12/06/2023 07:52

Reading this I feel so incredibly fortunate, I have 3 lovable but demanding teens... and a 91-year-old mother who still sympathizes with all my gripes, remains endlessly supportive, offers to pay for anything and everything, is completely independent and never complains about anything or asks for a favor.

Twiglets1 · 12/06/2023 07:56

Shortstufflady · 12/06/2023 07:30

My father suddenly developed severe Alzheimer’s at 67 and was put in a home because he became violent towards my mum. This left my mum on her own with all his business to run, a huge garden of ten acres and a home. She is 70 now and tries her best to be independent but obviously she needs help. She was with dad for 50 years. She needs company. Myself and my brothers still work full time. I do 12 hours a day as a childminder, but I still make time for my parents. My motto is treat others as you would like to be treated.

Your mum surely needs to downsize to a smaller and more manageable property. She's only 70 now which is still relatively young. If I were her I would move to a bungalow with a small easy maintained garden.

Lalalalala555 · 12/06/2023 07:56

My parents struggle now with technology. It's partly because they are quite impatient and think it's complicated and don't spend time to learn. They refuse to get internet banking so they go into town to go to the bank every week.

My mum is a bit of a menace for going on websites and putting in her card details.

Its hard work. Because teaching them multiple times it's like they're almost trying not to learn..

But. Yeah.

In your situation you need to prioritise your children. Because they cannot manage without you.

Your parents can. Albeit not as easily.
Maybe your parents can get help from their friends or other family members not just you.

There was a good comment on this thread. About teaching them so that they are self sufficient.
I think that's probably easier said than done. But if you made it clear you were going to spend a day with them teaching them stuff to then expect them to be able to do the stuff on their own. That may work.
Tbh i should probably do this with my parents.

I try the approach of telling them to do new things in the morning and if they get stuck they can send me WhatsApp pictures.. Rather than doing everything for them. They need to learn how to do things for themselves.
I think its a confidence thing. They seem to think because they don't know they won't know.

Good luck.

I hope things go towards a four day week.
I think the way things are they weren't designed to be possible with two parents working full time.

You guys are already superheros.

Twiglets1 · 12/06/2023 07:58

Teateaandmoretea · 12/06/2023 07:45

My motto is treat others as you would like to be treated.

This surely goes both ways? If she can’t manage the 10-acres now then expecting her children to do it is selfish and not sustainable. I wouldn’t do that to my children.

Exactly ... I wouldn't do it to my children either. I would move to a property that I could cope with & 10 acres is not realistic for someone going into their 70s on their own.

QueenieMe · 12/06/2023 08:05

PlumPudd · 09/06/2023 14:59

@MrsTerryPratchett They are in their mid- late 70’s, but the pandemic (when they both had to socially isolate because one of them was clinically vulnerable) made them both mentally age about 15 years and loose a lot of confidence in their own abilities and made them both feel more scared and vulnerable. Fair enough I suppose.

I sometimes get them to learn things themselves, but sometimes just cave in because the alternative is gruelling and can feel cruel and / or they just give up. It took me 45 minutes on the phone while bouncing a baby to sleep to explain to her how to log out of her account for something and log into mine. And the 45 minutes included her narrating entire pages of the internet to me despite me repeatedly reminding her that I couldn’t see the page she was on so her telling me the names of random icons would not help, her berating herself for being hopeless and almost crying, her insisting that she write down every step I was telling her to do in a notebook because if she forgot it she would never be able to log back into her account again, and me explaining that I could not give her step by step instructions because I couldn’t remember every click and page in my head oddly enough. eventually I just set her up a trial of the thing she wanted to access from my account.

I listen to some of their grumbles because they come up in every conversation, and the alternative would be to not speak to them. A typical conversation might go something like this:

Me: “What have you been up to today then?”
Dad: “I read the news online, did you see that thing about grooming gangs?”
Me: (I did see it but do not want to talk about this topic again) “No I don’t really have much time to read the news these days, the baby is teething and…
Dad: (interrupting) “Well it wasn’t properly reported as usual, the BBC - biased as usual - only said that.”
Me: (interrupting) “Dad I don’t really want to hear about it to be honest, it’s a bit upsetting isn’t it.”
Dad: “Don’t you care about what’s happening in your country?”
Me: “Yes I do care, but I rang up to hear about you not to talk about the news. Have you been out in the garden today?”
Him: “Hrmm, well I was telling you about it because you said you didn’t have time to read it. Not that you’d find out much about it from the BBC, they never report these stories”
Me: (getting annoyed) “but Didn’t you say you’d read about it on the BBC? so if the BBC aren’t reporting it, how did you read … anyway never mind that, I don’t want to talk about it. How’s the garden doing, I can’t wait to bring baby up to see it. Do you know what baby did today, it was very sweet…”
Dad: (interrupting) “It’s looking lovely, but my shoulder is still hurting me so I can’t do the pruning at the right time. It’s very painful, I’m quite old now you know - everything is aching. I’m an old man, I wish I was young and healthy like you!”
Me: “Yes dad, it’s tough. Though I did just give birth four weeks ago so I’m not feeling particularly healthy myself right now. How is your shoulder, did you ask the doctor about your blood medicine?”
Him: “No I don’t want to dwell on negative things.”
Me: (resists urge to point out that everything he has brought up is negative) “Well you probably should ask him about it, it might help. When is your next appointment?”
Him: “What do you think about Prince Harry?”
Me: “I don’t really have an opinion on him dad, I don’t know him. Would you like to hear about the baby?”
Dad: “Well you may not know him but your taxes are paying for his lifestyle. Don’t you care about things like this, you used to be interested in politics?”
Me: “I am, but I rang to talk to you, not to hear about politics - if this even is politics.”

etc etc etc…

Aside from the caring aspect of your OP, I think you were actually quite rude here. Would it really have hurt to listen for a minute to something he was interested in talking about and then move to other topics like the garden? You don't actually have to listen – when my dad goes off on one I tune him out! But your blunt dismissiveness and then trying to talk over him about the baby – a v. boring topic to lots of people, frankly – it's no wonder your conversations are fraught.

ToneDeath · 12/06/2023 08:10

Over the weekend, my 70yo mother tried to call me 6 times whilst we were at a BBQ. I didn’t hear my phone because there was music on and I was wrangling my 3 kids, plus my husband was helping my friend with her 5(!!) kids. It was burger time. You know? The part of the day when the burgers appear and your kids are all saying toppings at you, all at the same time. And suddenly you need more arms than Vishnu.

Someone said “ToneDeath, your phone is buzzing”

My husband checks and sees it’s his mum and we’d just missed it. Then he checks his and he also has a similar number of missed calls.

We look at each other in that face-drained-of-blood-way. Oh god. Mum. What’s happened?

He rings her back and we dart into a quiet space…. She answers in 2 rings and she’s absolutely livid at the pair of us.

“Thanks so much for your help” she quips sarcastically

”I don’t know what to get [eldest daughter] for her birthday, and I see you’re too busy to care”

“Mum, we’re at a BBQ. We just didn’t hear our phones. And we can help you with this later”

“I’ve got Amazon on now”

Then she goes on to name about 15 horse books, one after another, with no pause.

“Which of these does she already have?”

“I don’t know, Mum. We aren’t at home right now. We can get her and you can ask her yourself?”

“No, I’ll just give you the money and you can buy and wrap them next week. I don’t know what I’m doing.”

Xtraincome · 12/06/2023 08:10

I get it OP. However with my DM she is extremely instrumental in our week as a family. She is slower, more moany, a bit lonely, down about her chronic illness but she is fab with the girls. An excellent help and comes to me for the odd work lunch and we get some nice time together.

She is struggling with COL crises, so we cook her 1/2 evening meals a week.

Sunshineandflipflops · 12/06/2023 08:11

It sounds tough op. I guess I am fortunate that my parents, although 78/79 are still very independent (they have just flown off to Spain for a week) and still help me a lot with things like gardening/financial advice, etc so I'd be lost without them. They do sometimes need help with things that are more technical but my dad is pretty good at keeping up with the world.

Some of my close friends have recently lost parents (all younger than mine too) so I am just incredibly grateful that they are still here and relatively healthy and happy.

I also have a brother to share things like this with - I haven't read all of the posts to see if this is the case with you but I guess it's a time where having siblings is a benefit.

ToneDeath · 12/06/2023 08:12

My post should have read mother-in-law. 🤦🏻‍♀️

Nikii83 · 12/06/2023 08:17

Teateaandmoretea · 12/06/2023 07:41

@Nikii83 omg they aren’t even old 🤦🏻‍♀️

I know I think the reason my dad is fairing better is his parents were alive until their 80’s/90’s

my mum lost her two sisters her mum and dad when they were in their late sixities so she assumes her time is almost up.. keep telling her when we celebrate her 100th birthday I will tell her I told her so 🤣🤣

LuckySantangelo35 · 12/06/2023 08:35

gamerchick · 09/06/2023 15:06

Tbf both sides of that conversation is a bit dull OP. I wouldn't want to hear about stuff going on in the world, or what a baby did.

We owe our parents fuck all. They had sex and we were the result. Thats it. Give what you want, if you want and tell them to sort the rest themselves

@gamerchick

and your kids owe you fuck all

Honestly what is the point??

Upsizer · 12/06/2023 08:38

OP, your conversation made me smile!! It sounds just like my parents. As someone else said, just reading the Daily Mail all day and seething. It feels so negative. “Oh did you read about that girl being shot? Imagine if that was DD and how you’d feel.” Errrr no, thanks, I avoid going mad by NOT thinking like that.

Its exhausting when everyone wants a bit of you. Me and DH sometimes swap parents - we seem to have more patience with each other’s parents than our own. I don’t have any solutions - just try not to turn into them?!

NorthernSarcasticandDownrightFantastic · 12/06/2023 08:39

Muchtoomuchtodo · 09/06/2023 15:14

@gamerchick if that’s literally all that your parents did and didn’t contribute any more to bringing you up or supporting you in any way then I can understand your point of view but many parents do much more than that and their dc then ought to support them back as they get older imo. This will not be the same for everyone and I understand that not everyone was fortunate to have the type of upbringing that I did.

I’m definitely very pleased that I did what I could to support my parents while they were still alive. I know that my db wishes he had done more and seen them more while he had the chance.

This, but I do think losing a parent/parents changes things too.
Both my parents were/are heavily disabled, and I lost my Dad in November last year about 3 weeks after my 20week scan for his first grandchild...
The rest of my pregnancy my mum was newly alone (she was always the more anxious, more ill one who Dad doted on, made all her drinks/meals, cleaned, didball bills she pottered doing hobbies and the odd bit of laundry or popping bleach in loos etc)
And in and out of hospital nearly dying herself with flare ups of various things.

I now speak to my mum everyday, do extra batch cooking for her, take her shopping (if you haven't spent 3hours in a small aldi you haven't lived, honestly) or pick up odd bits for her in-between, and invite her to mine for dinner every few days and pop and do her garden, or hoover and mop her house, or quickly wipe over the bathrooms at least once a week. It's a few hours out of my day, and she likes seeing her grand baby whilst I quickly get on with it, or I pop down for an hour whilst DH does bath and bed at home for little one ... I'll do the same when I go back to work. She's my mum at the end of the day and if she could she would do anything for me, and has done over the years.

AliasGrape · 12/06/2023 08:42

We are now in a similar-ish situation with my husband’s parents as you describe. They are mid-70s, we were older parents and have a nearly 3 year old.

They do ok really - still able to get out and about themselves, book their own appointments etc. FIL is fit as a fiddle and walks miles every day. MIL less so, but manages the garden and does a gentle keep fit class for older people, plus is on some committees/ charity things.

They do also help us, some babysitting here and there for example - though we try very hard not to ask them often as it always comes with such a performance afterwards of how exhausted they are, how it’s too much for them, she’s worn them out etc etc so it has to be quite minimal - I’m happy to make alternative arrangements but they get offended by that so seems a bit can’t win.

However Covid definitely made a huge difference - no particular requirement to shield beyond age group but just really dented their confidence. It’s since then really that all we ever seem to hear about is how old they are, how it’s not for people their age, older people like them can’t be expected to do that, when you get to their age - it’s pretty constant and at odds with how much they can and do do - but it’s also becoming a bit self-fulfilling I think. They’ve talked themselves out of some really lovely things on the grounds of ‘it’s too much at their age’ - which seems a shame as they actually manage more complex/ challenging stuff but it’s just their perception of what they can/ can’t do.

The requests for IT/ tech support from my husband are getting more and more constant - there’s a phone call at least 3 or 4 evenings a week ‘your dad has clicked on something and the screen has gone black’, ‘I’m trying to send a picture to Jean and I can’t do it’, ‘it’s saying we need an update’ etc. They both increasingly monologue at us about their pet subjects (to be fair this was always the case with FIL and I suspect there are other factors at play there, but MIL is doing it more and more). Struggle more and more with banking - lots of rants about how unfair it is to make older people do it online and they refuse to do it so DH has to do anything like that for them. He’s off work today but has already gone to help them by taking some stuff to the tip and then they want help booking a flight - I feel for him as he’s had about 3 hours sleep as DD was up so much struggling with the heat.

MIL doesn’t drive and FIL increasingly frets about his car being damaged so he doesn’t like to much, which means we’re getting the odd request for lifts too - trying to hold firm on boundaries there although will do it if it is convenient for us.

They have another grandchild who lives abroad but they’ve never met because they’re too old to get on a plane apparently - although looks like that might be finally happening now (hence flight booking) - we will arrange assistance for them at the airport, and they want help finding insurance etc.

My aunt is a good ten years older than them - and granted is a bit of an anomaly but still worked, travelling all over the world right up until covid. She’s still has such a full and active life now - puts me to shame. But when she comes up in conversation my in laws are always saying things like ‘I suppose she won’t be wanting to do X, we’re the same, it’s too much when you get to our age’ - and I think she’s got ten years on you, and yes she is still doing X and Y and Z too. My mum bless her only got to 72 but until that brutal illness she was the life and soul, more like someone in their 50s/60s - so I find their insistence on acting like they’re 90-odd a bit harder to understand.

They actually did an awful lot of caring for FIL’s parents - his mother only passed away a few years back at 96. She didn’t need much help physically but anything practical from shopping to bills to the house etc they had to do for her - apparently this wasn’t so much an age thing she’d always required an awful lot of support throughout her life.

I do worry what the expectations will be on us going forward, particularly after all they did for their parents (although they got a great deal of practical support when their own children were little too, which we do not with us all being so much older). DH’s brother lives abroad so it’s only really us around.

Selfishly I feel I’ve done all the caring I’m prepared to do really - my dad had a stroke when I was 15 and was severely incapacitated at home for 8 years - my mum took on most of the burden obviously but it impacted me, then my mum got cancer and I was caring for them both around the time I was doing A-Levels, then in my thirties I dropped everything to care for my mum when she became terminally ill - right decision and I’d do it again for her, but I was single then. I also spent a few months abroad and away from DH supporting the aunt mentioned above after she had cancer surgery - again before DD. I now have a very full on toddler and am trying to get my career back on track from various interruptions and I just don’t feel up to taking on that role for DH’s parents, though will of course support DH to do whatever he needs. Will have to see how things go and cross that bridge when we come to it.

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