Elderly needy parents + young needy kids - arghhh!!

[PlumPudd]

What do we owe to our parents / what responsibility do we have to them and what do they in return owe / have a responsibility towards us and our little kids?

I expect this is a common issue in my age group (mid 30’s). I’ve got little kids, who I love more than life itself, but who need most of my and my partners time / care / worry and attention. I also have a job, a partner, a mortgage, health worries, friends who I’d sometimes like to see, the need to occasionally have five minutes to myself to read a book etc.

However at the same time I’m raising my tiny kids my parents have been switching from relatively independent adults, to querulous, feeble (their words) old folks who want me to show them how to use the internet and book appointment for them, spend endless hours listening to their fears and grumbles about each other, their health, politics, media bias, how awful young people are today, how expensive their heating bill is (not as bloody expensive as mine) etc. and seem to feel that their time to look after has ended and their time to be looked after has begun and that it’s my responsibility to do this.

All this at a time when I’d really value still getting a bit of support and a listening ear from them as I look after a baby and a toddler, struggle to afford life, balance work, manage my own health etc. I know they got this support from their (admittedly slightly younger) parents, my grandparents, and that in theory they’d like to give it to me, but they seem unable / unwilling to.

In principle I agree that your parents should look after you and you should in turn look after your parents when they get old. But what are we all supposed to do when (because everyone is having kids later and living longer) our parents get old, grumpy and in need at the same time that we ourselves need their support in the difficult years with very young kids, or don’t have the time and energy to look after them and our kids together?!?!?

Not really looking for an answer to this (hypothetical) question, just offloading…

Believe me the stress of waiting to hear whether a care home will accept an elderly parent is 100 times worse that waiting to hear about a school place. That was my day today and I only wanted two weeks of respite care!

I think my post might have come across as crowing - sorry, I really didn’t mean it to. I know that every person in their 70s is different, some are fit and healthy, others not at all, or have already died. I also know how quickly things can change. A close friend just lost her dad who was fit and well at Christmas, dead by Easter of a swift cancer.
Also, my parents have always been positive and go getting, plus just blessed with good health (some by luck some by things they do). My DH’s dad has always been somewhat of an Eeyore character (he’s nice but he always sees the negative in things, DH and I joke about it) and I think as people age, their dominant character traits often come to the fore, perhaps because they don’t get diluted by work colleagues etc?

You have my sympathies, I struggle with fun sponges so much.

@JumbleAndKitchen I'm sorry that's your experience with your parents.

There are very good studies showing that doing what your parents did IS protective. How protective, and what the ultimate outcome is, depends completely on their underlying health. It still works. That doesn't mean that aging is their fault, just that there is a huge effect of lifestyle on aging. It's not all random chance.

This post was obviously an opinion of the poster from their experience, nothing personally said to you, no rudeness, nor intimidation. If you’re going to let an opinion ‘really really upset’ you, so much so that you have to comment on how much upset it has caused, when the post wasn’t personally aimed at you and was a mere opinion derived from genuine experience, you might need to consider avoiding this site, as it is essentially a collection of opinions and one could find offence in any one or all of them!

What I would take away from this dilemma is that aside from the fact they aren't able to support you anymore which would be helpful with your young family. There are the 2 of them and so they are safe and not in any immediate need of actual care or physical support.
From this it would be acceptable for you to just look after yourself and your young family and keep in touch but don't get dragged into the appointments or tech help (unless it is a genuinely urgent issue)
As others have said you end up being the easy choice rather than the 2 of them working it out themselves. You may need to develop some techniques for avoiding the long winded calls, oh dear baby is screaming or one of the kids is hurt must go.
My MIL seems to only want to rant about polictical or world problems and after a full week at work I don't actually want to hear and discuss this. I don't get asked how my week was or the kids news I'm just a focus to rant at. Sounds similar to your issue.
I do think a lot of older people can age very quickly and their world shrinks suddenly.
However my mid 80's dad who is now on his own manages his tech/food/garden and rarely asks for help and regularly bakes me cakes so it just depends on the personality.

Mmm, I feel your pain.

My Dad has basically abdicated from life really, he's been banging on about being old and incapable whilst actually being old and very capable for a long time. Lockdown really didn't help him, but much worse - his TOTAL refusal to take seriously his severe sleep apnea.

So he gets no restful sleep, he sleeps most of the day but all that time is pretty much spent dozing, choking himself, dozing again.

He doesn't want to wear a mask, doesn't really want to admit he has sleep apnea, because he feels like if the treatment for that cures some of his ills... he will have to admit he does NOT have M.E. and never did (likely!)...

And he can't do that, he's spent the last 20 years claiming he has M.E. and blah blah etc.

The net result of this is he has no real life bar a few hours in the pub every night, he has nothing to talk about except old stories he now can't remember the punchlines too, jokes he has misremembered and half-tales of things he heard on the radio whilst dozing.

He is therefore very bored, has stopped doing any of the things he could do and enjoy so is also miserable.

He rings me and demands I entertain and cheer him up, I can't, he is not interested in a SINGLE thing I do, think or say.

My sister takes him to the pub several nights a week (mostly to stop him drink driving), and ensures he eats food.

I can't even go to his house now as all the plans we had to ensure his house was accessible for me and future proofed for him were never done. He has been so spectactularly rude to all his friends none of them want to see him and he wont talk to anyone on the phone any more (except me and my sister, and that is just to berate us and ask for things like 'fix my computer').

He is now choosing to pretend he has no clue WHY I can't come to his house and do things for him.

I've been in a wheelchair nearly a decade - thats gone, that doesn't fit with what suits him to believe so I am now apparently lazy.

He believes I could send my partner round several days a week to talk to him and do his garden. I can't - I can spare him a couple of hours once a week to fetch vital shopping and do minor gardening, but he is MY full time carer, for a reason.

He is under the impression my sister can move in with him - hell will freeze over before she will do that.

Absolute bloody fucking nightmare and most of it because he refused to future-proof, and has actively chosen to fuck himself over!

My parents are in their mid eighties and are in fairly good health but my mother tends to act a bit helpless when forms need to be filled in, blue badges need to be applied for, pension queries need to sorted etc. They have befriended a single lady in her late eighties with no health issues, who is the life and sole of the party but sadly couldn't have children. Because she hasn't got anyone to help her, she still drives, uses the Internet, goes on holiday, sorts out all her own financial stuff, shops, looks after her garden etc, etc. I've noticed my mother has started to do more now instead of asking me as shes noticed her friend is so fiercely independent. After many years of relying on my father to drive her everywhere, she told me she wants to drive again. The effect this lady has had on my mum has been remarkable. It's been great for me, but it's made me realise that their previous 'helplessness'
with forms, the Internet etc was just that they didn't want to do it!

Same with us really - dc are 9 and 11 and our Dp are all in their 80s and need our help. Not local either. ATM dm is staying with us to give my dad a break, while Dh is helping his dad with gardening over the weekend and staying as he’s lonely. We are knackered.

I just tell myself we’re lucky they are still around. In 10 years, all our parents will most likely be dead and the dc will have left home.

as for your dads conversation, Mine would be the same - not really interested in a tiny baby. A lot of people aren’t, especially men, even if they’re related. My mum would have been interested though - was yours?

I hear you. I have an 11 and 8 year old and look after my DF. He is 87. I have no time for me, my life is kids, work and my dad. It’s depressing and turning me resentful

OP that sounds really tough, I get it, I'm sure it makes you feel that they're just not interested in you or your life. My grandmother is 87, and we have both cut my mother off 18months ago (she's in her 60s) because she was very cruel and narcissistic. However, this means for me, that I work a 30 hour week, my husband works 40 hours, we have two children, and now my nanny too who needs things during the week, we arrange bills, appointments (which are hell to get her too as I can't book time off work in a school and he has to rush her there and back and can't always do it). She's got arthritis and lives alone, so literally depends on us for most things however she is active enough physically in her home. She never calls to ask how I am, she will ring in a panic if she gets a letter, or "can you do this for me" but doesn't really take an interest in what's going on with us, it's just endless household jobs and appointments lol so I kind of just feel like I'm there for when she wants something and nothing more at times.
Oh and she tells me everytime I see her or talk to her that she paid too much for her house 🥴😂

It is what it is I suppose.

There is no set answer to this, but I sympathise. I have had three full blown burn outs, and it was due to everything you describe: young kids, full time work, husband working two jobs and out all the time and parents who increasingly needed support (plus a brother with drug issues, parents divorce, sister in an abusive marriage etc). I became the strong sensible one for everyone and it was hard.

My brother died at the start of the pandemic, I became a carer to my Dad, who had lived with him and was very disabled. My Dad then took I’ll about 9 months later and died aged 68 of Covid he acquired in hospital.

Then my in laws both took very unwell. My MIl has a massive heart attack, has COPD and is on oxygen, my FIL got bone cancer which was found late and he died at Christmas, but both had been frail and had multiple blue lights into hospital over the past couple of years.

Only my Mum is basically healthy, just turned 70, still able to help out, get about, go on long hauls etc. but I can even feel her slowing down, but she doesn’t ‘need’ me in the same way.

Anyway, these things are a perfect storm that hit us at this age. When you are in it it feels relentless. But now both dad, brother and FIL have passed, I miss them, but I do feel a huge weight of anxiety and stress has lifted.

Goodness, my late DF was still making his own appointments, doing his own shopping etc. until the last couple of months of his life at age 89! Other than paying his bills online (cheques have been phased out here) I really didn't do much for him, other than chat on the phone and a weekly visit to a cafe with him. My late DM had mild dementia and went into care, but she was doing the same up to age 85. Your parents need to do as much as they can for themselves while they can - it is good for people to try and remain independant, mentally and physically.

I would only say, how would you feel if your kids felt the same way about you in 40+ years..

Oh OP I read this wondering whether my subconscious (or one of my siblings ) had written it. Exact same conversations with my parents - DF is especially exercised about trans politics now and apparently has finally come out as a feminist (doesn’t care about equal pay or equality in the home funnily enough).

the problem with old parents is they have lost all ability to relate to peoples lives that are even a little bit different from their own (gardening, golf, seeing Sheila for a g&t etc etc). We are not busy to them, because they cannot understand what we do with our time.

Agree with this. All the rich oldies still gadding about internationally at 80 are usually well off.
If you're working class you
a. probably had a job where you didn't use a computer so less tech savvy now and
b. lack the confidence to keep travelling as it was more a rare luxury rather than a way of life.
It's very much a class issue in my mind.

Do you have any siblings that could shoulder some of the burden? It's hard, I know. I've been there with my in-laws (they were always super involved and interested in the kids though) but they were very time consuming! I just keep reminding myself that my parents won't be around for ever and to try to realise their frustration at getting old. I hope I'm never like that but I hope one day my kids will give me some grace if I become a grumpy old woman! 🤣

I feel for you, OP.

While I appreciate there are older people whose health prohibits them from doing things (to put it mildly), my mum is 65 - not even elderly - and takes great joy in refusing to use a smartphone, and even to use a cashpoint (she sends my dad who is 68 but retired from a career in IT so he does plenty of stuff). She is still working three days a week in a job where she uses a computer- she seems to actually enjoy describing herself as an old lady despite being perfectly capable and not even old. I am dreading to think what she will be like in ten years, or if something happens to my dad.

A lot of online stuff has built up gradually for over 20 years now - it isn't a new thing, and I do think it is incumbent on people to try to keep up.

Buckle up OP because this is the start of a long road where you eventually become their keeper.

I was you about ten years ago. And now I’m in my mid forties and hold lasting power of attorney for both parents that I am now having to use for my dad, who is suddenly very frail and unwell.

There will come a time when the annoyance of helping them is a golden past and you’ll be looking down the barrel of a future without them.

Get them to do as much as they can and encourage them to have their own lives. But also remember that there will come a time when you will miss these days- I certainly do.

I mean, your father certainly has a point,. A lot of your hardship is down to other people taking advantage of your apathy.

Also, you seem just like each other funnily enough. You want to speak about your preferred topic so you'll actively shut down his topic to do so. He wants to speak about his topic so he'll actively shut down your topic to suit.

Oh god they sound like my in laws. They swallow the daily mail verbatim and sit seething all day. So sad. I can't bear speaking to them for more than 5 minutes. It's brain rot.

You’re in you mid 30’s, how old could your parents possibly be? If they’re 75 they would have been 52 in 2000 lots of computers about, using them in work etc. Seems bizarre.

OP, I sympathise, it sounds very tough. For anyone struggling to help with IT issues, I'd recommend https://www.teamviewer.com/en/ . It allows you to log onto someone else's computer (they have to launch the app and give you the password) and take control. I know it still take time, but I've found it quicker to do this when my parents are having issues and I can't visualise what they're trying to do. It's free for personal use.

The example conversation you posted made me feel a bit sad actually op. You may not want to speak about what’s on the news and Prince Harry etc but for older people who are less mobile and can’t get out as much things they see on the tv/news are a big part of their lives and a connection to the wider world. It sounds like everything your dad says you dismiss but then are offended when he doesn’t want to talk about what is important to you.

@PlumPudd I really empathise with this. My mum can't drive and has mobility issues and many other health concerns, and has actually never been able to organise a piss up in a brewery so I was quite a parentified child as the eldest girl. She is a conspiracy theorist and just wants to talk to me about the latest bullshit she read on twitter. My in-laws are very needy as my FIL has dementure and my MIL is his round-the-clock carer who refuses to accept any help and loves to moan as the martyr badge is one she wears with pride. It is exhausing, and my own grandparents were such a help to my mum when we were little so I can't help but feel short changed.

We do everything for our 90 + mum as she wants to stay in her own home, so we support her in this, basically by doing most things for her. Our Mum isn’t an issue in our life, she’s our Mum. I understand that’s it’s difficult but that’s the price of love.