“Pride is about identity not sex”

[Chocchops72]

“Pride is about identity not sex”

i just read this statement on a Twitter thread and it really caught my attention. Surely the whole point of Pride is (or was?) to demand / celebrate the right of gay people to have sex, legally, with other people of the same sex as themselves?

As a straight adult human female I don’t have much skin in this game, but this phrase just stood out for me as really weird. Isn’t sexuality - linked to one’s sex - the whole point? It’s like walking the walk, not just talking the talk.

I mean, if it’s true then I could ‘identify’ as a lesbian (not sure how) without ever actually having sex with a woman? But I’d be able to say I’m a lesbian? Am I understanding this correctly?

It is perfectly fine if you don't see your sexual orientation and choice of romantic partner as part of your identity. But it is presumptuous to think everyone is like you

For lots of people it is a massive part of our identity. I might be same sex attracted as base biological fact. But depending on which country I grow up in, I either like myself as a human being and am proud to be gay, or I am ashamed and have to hide it for fear of going to prison/ going to hell, or maybe I just don't care as it makes no difference to my life in anyway. Our identity is who we are, our personality, how we feel about ourselves. For most people our sexual and romantic behaviour plays into how we see ourselves given our environmental context.

The words are meaningless now. All of them. They can mean anything anyone wants them to mean, and hell mend you if you don't agree with every individual's personal definition. Language is becoming meaningless, but that's okay as soon we will all be too afraid to speak for fear of offending someone. Soon we'll be back grunting and hooting, like our ancestors.

Who, incidentally, certainly knew what sex they were.

I think my most asked - and as yet unanswered - question on various threads where accusations of transphobia have been thrown out is 'what has been said that's transphobic'.

Never, ever gets answered.

I was thinking the same thing, I thought maybe I had missed some comprehension of other posts. But seems like a fair and balanced discussion to me.

That they now dish out the same drugs to kids that were forced on Alan Turing and this is celebrated at Pride is quite a turnaround.

Interesting point.

Again, same sex attraction is not "transphobia", neither is it a "transphobic dog whistle".
To frame same sex attraction as transphobia or a transphobic dog whistle is homophobia.
If it is transphobic to state such things, then I will wear that hat and not have one single reservation about doing so.

You are homophobic.
As a homosexual, I genuinely do not care if you find it upsetting that a same sex attracted female has the right to refuse to entertain members of the opposite sex in order to validate their gender identity.

@PSNonsense it is because usually the following get mentioned

• monkey dick person at library

-dog mask whip people at Pride -both of the above being linked to corrupting children

It is when people see the most extreme negative side of an issue and start speaking like ALL trans people stand for that. It is like when we speak about Islam and people start bringing up suicide bombers... or if we were to talk about men and then incels start getting brought up as the benchmark for all men.

Monkey dick person is 1 person out of millions of trans people across the world. Why is it that one person's poor decision to wear that awful outfit now gets brought up on most debates? Why do a small group of dog masked people (30 out of about 5000) represent the whole of pride?

No one is out and out saying 'I hate trans people'. But they are using the most extreme people (who most trans people don't associate with) as ' the example'

Quite.
Adults in their right mind really do need to start questioning it.

Great, so if I express myself as gender critical, pride will welcome me with open arms?

I think by “sex” they mean gender, not the act of having sex

Good grief. One is too many.

I agree :)

But not sure what that really has to do with trans people? Once there was women who poisoned all her children and then started adopting children and poisoning them. Are all adoptive parents posioners? The daily mail would certainly run with that title!

FFS it clearly means biological sex (male/female) not bonking!

Do you really not understand the concept of safeguarding? Your post indicates that that is the case.

Monkey dick person was trans?
The dog mask whip people at pride are trans?

Really?

As a non straight person I am done with pride at this point, it doesn't represent me or particularly welcome me

I'm ready for the split and think we need two separate movements for either side to benefit whatsoever

I dont think these dangerous sexualised people should be around children if that is what you mean?

My post is disagreeing with dangerous sex fiends being conflated with the average trans person.

I know 5 trans people. Not one of them has been to pride. Not one of them likes people to know they are trans. And frankly, it wasn't obvious to me they had even been born the opposite sex in the first place with 2 of them until it came out later.

My experience of real life trans people is very different to the wild sex fiends we see in the media. And I dislike the idea that when we say trans people we mean absolute maniacs. The vast majority are nor like this. So do I think the average trans person being near children is a safeguarding issue? Of course not. Do I want a child to be near mad sex craziness. Also no.

My question is, out of the trans people you known in your life who are trans... how many of them are waving dicks in your kids faces?

How does this fit in with the straight men wearing dresses who are claiming to be lesbians and being celebrated by Stonewall and Pride and other prominent gay rights organisations?
These men will claim their 'identity' makes them part of the gay community, but really they are acting out a fetish and expecting/demanding that other people play along.

The problem is self identification has no become synonymous with trans because these days Self ID laws are being brought in everywhere. Men can self identify as women and legally we are supposed to accept them as such, without question.

You are (very deliberately) missing the point. If anyone can self identify into previously protected spaces, then how do we know who is dangerous and who isn't until it's too late.

These media examples are not a random occurrence, they are what happens when you allow men to access women's spaces without question - all the pervy men can come on it and not even be challenged. The fact that you excuse this as just a few random crazies is completely missing the point - they shouldn't be there.

The numbers of trans identifying male sex offenders in prison is significantly higher than the general male population. So that either means that there is some correlation between those two things, or, as I suspect, sex offenders are now using this free for all to access women's prisons. Either way, it should not be on women to put up with these men.

This is what is being fought for and celebrated by previously respectable organisations like Stonewall.

The LGB Alliance are a fairly new organisation for gay and lesbian people who don't want to be lumped in with the TQIA+++

I am actually just arguing a different point altogether. I completely agree with you and am gender critical myself. I am incredibly worried about what is going on and it all needs to be discussed and not just accepted.

The point I was making is why the word transphobic comes up. It is because naturally, when we speak about trans people, the fear about dangerous men using 'trans' as an excuse overtakes. That is why people start saying transphobic. As what we actually dislike is the dangerous people, not necessarily the trans people.

The point I was making is why the word transphobic comes up. It is because naturally, when we speak about trans people, the fear about dangerous men using 'trans' as an excuse overtakes. That is why people start saying transphobic. As what we actually dislike is the dangerous people, not necessarily the trans people

"We" - do you speak for everyone?

There are people out there who do dislike trans people. Just as they dislike women. Minorities.

Probably some of those people are on MN at the moment.

@Sunnyfeelgood - the original demographic trans people were welcomed into the LGBT community, but those people didn't want to leap about, celebrating their 'differences'.
They wanted to pass as the biological sex to which they had transitioned, and live their lives.

The 'T' at Pride represented transvestites. Gay men, who dressed as outrageous flamboyant women. They did not claim to be women, or ask for us to accept them as such.

Now we have bearded men in ladies swimsuits, proudly displaying their bulges and claiming to be lesbians. Apparently they are whatever they say they are.
This trans does not seem to belong in the gay community.
Unfortunately it's the loudest trans of them all.

I suspect though, sunny, you have conflated fetishists in general with trans people in your posts.

As far as I am aware the Dildo rainbow butt monkey was not trans. And I don't necessarily think the dogs you mentioned are. They both could be, however, it doesn't matter at all.

The issue with those instances is the lowering of sexual boundaries. Why should children see any monkey with a dildo as supposed entertainment? Why should any person see a person wearing any fetish gear in public? Particularly when part of that fetish is people's reaction to it and therefore the public have not consented to this.