“Pride is about identity not sex”

[Chocchops72]

“Pride is about identity not sex”

i just read this statement on a Twitter thread and it really caught my attention. Surely the whole point of Pride is (or was?) to demand / celebrate the right of gay people to have sex, legally, with other people of the same sex as themselves?

As a straight adult human female I don’t have much skin in this game, but this phrase just stood out for me as really weird. Isn’t sexuality - linked to one’s sex - the whole point? It’s like walking the walk, not just talking the talk.

I mean, if it’s true then I could ‘identify’ as a lesbian (not sure how) without ever actually having sex with a woman? But I’d be able to say I’m a lesbian? Am I understanding this correctly?

https://prideinlondon.org/about-us

From Pride in London website "We are proud to run the UK's largest and most diverse Pride event, which provides a vital platform for all members of London's LGBT+ communities, including those who identify as lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans*, queer, questioning, intersex, non-binary, asexual, polysexual, genderqueer, and gender variant"

Nobody really wants to stop people from celebrating diversity. Surely we can all do that just in our everyday lives without a song and dance which brings more attention to the 'diversity' that ostracises the people that are just trying to fit in?

But how will the People of the Alphabet exist without all the attention?

So, 98% of the population then?

@SoupDragon

Everyone is entitled to an opinions though aren't they?

My opinion is that the holocaust was awful, but I wasn't there, have no relatives involved and have never been to the country.

Should I be indifferent or have no opinion on that either?

Is your point that unless you are gay, you shouldn't have an opinion on pride?

Ahhh but we all come under the definition pride has developed. It’s a tiny proportion of the country who are heterosexual, to the extent they can’t even recognise someone of their own sex being attractive, and 100% gender conforming.

So opinion away!

Why is there not a backlash to this from gay people? You're events are being colonised by people with fetishes.

I read a blog post not long ago from a young lesbian saying that they last few years at lesbian events, she has seen a huge increase in men dressed as women, hitting on young lesbians. As in, these men are claiming to be lesbians and getting annoyed when the young women don't reciprocate their advances. How fucked up is that? And these young women are then made to feel bad because they reject the advances of these straight men, who have somehow claimed a 'gay' identity by putting on a dress.

And this is what Pride is now celebrating. Bizarre.

*your

As expected this has just become a transphobic thread. Although I really wasn't expecting to see A (Asexual) described as a kink.
Pride is NOT about having sex.
We live in a country that had to pardon a war hero recently (Alan Turing) decades after his death.
The world is increasingly unsafe for LGBT+ people.
And seeing the 'identity' point thrown around is bizarre given the existence of political lesbianism as a concept is decades old.
Where did this outrage come from. None of the things people say they are outraged about are new!

Turing was not a "war hero" as he did not fight. He worked on breaking the Nazi's code.

If Pride is not about sex why are men in bondage whipping each other on the backs of lorries and being paraded through town?

Go tell them to put their kinks away not tell us off for pointing it out.

The 'outrage' has come from the recent assertion that men who wish to be counted as women (for their own fetishistic reasons) should be embraced as members of the gay community. There is a huge difference between same sex attraction and transvestitism (now rebranded as transgender).

Can you really not see how that is offensive and insulting to gay people, particularly lesbians to be told that men who wear dresses are 'also lesbians' and should be treated as such?

The word transphobic has been so overused, it now seems to mean anyone who doesn't want men in women's spaces, or doesn't want vulnerable children to be put on a harmful path to surgery and hormones. If that makes me transphobic then so be it.

Turing most certainly was a hero. There are many ways to fight a war.

There is a backlash from gay people.
Many of us are both furious and utterly ashamed of what pride has become.

Personally, I view it as a celebration of homophobia.

That sounds extreme, but the TQ element seeks to remove sex, and by default sexual orientation (the LGB)
If we refuse members of the opposite sex who "identify as" lesbians (trans identified males) or "gay men" (trans identified females" we are abused as being transphobic bigots and "genital fetishists".
The idea was, for example, that lesbians had to indulge trans identified males and "unlearn their genital preferences" to enjoy "girldick" or the "lesbian penis" in order to validate the concept that trans women are women.

Lesbians have been physically removed from pride (for holding placards saying "lesbians dont have penises") and gay men have been removed "for their safety" (for wearing a LGB Alliance T shirt)

The identity mob has taken over, the only focus is "transphobia" and to be brutally honest, increasing numbers of the LGB want a bloody divorce.

Another hugely irritating facet is that our history has been rewritten to centre the trans movement. We are regularly told that a trans woman started the stonewall riots and that the LGB should be grateful or thankful.
This is a LIE.
Storm Delarverie triggered the riot when she threw the first brick.
Marsha P Johnson was a) uptown at the time and b) not a trans woman. He was very openly a gay man and drag queen who used to laugh when people thought he was a woman.
Silvia Riviera was passed out on a bench at the time the riots began and Marsha went to retrieve him when he was en route to the protest.

Gay Pride was started by the LGB. Fred Sergeant and his partner Craig in NY and by the GLF in the UK. If anybody goes to look at the photo archives of the early events, there was NO TQ representation, but everywhere you look, historical revisionism centres the TQ in gay liberation.

Anyway. Here's Marsha in his own words - https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sYW0Mg1i_wk

Is Pride a celebration of 'queer culture' now? That's how it seems, rather than trying primarily to be representative of lesbian and gay people.

Of course it’s not about sex. This is a weird thing to get shocked about.

there is a massive stereotype about gay people and sex, it’s not just sex or sex at all it’s about who you are and where you belong.

This is actually EXACTLY the point.
The LGB fought to be unremarkable, boring, just like everyone else.

We did not fight to become a circus or an orgy of paraphilias and sexual kinks displayed to the public.

Yes.

Verv
I'm sorry, this has turned into such a shitshow. I really feel for young gay people having to deal with this crap, particularly lesbians who seem to get thrown under the bus for having boundaries.

You can also see on this thread many people who don't seem to understand the coup d'etat that has happened in the last few years in the gay community. And by that I don't mean actual gay people getting on with their lives, I mean things like Stonewall and Pride and other formerly gay rights organisation who have now shifted their priorities to endorsing straight men with fetishes.

Many people still seem to think that trans is just the next gay rights, but it really isn't.

Did you even read the OP or just jump on this from the thread title?

The OP was talking about sexual orientation and sexuality versus gender identity (a made up thing) and those two being conflated.

Exactly. I’m bi and married to a man- I haven’t stopped being bi or stopped having that as a part of my identity just because I’m not actively having sex with women.

Also not sure why people are acting like trans and genderqueer people are a “new” part of Pride. The language might have changed slightly but they’ve always been there.

Check out the stats - https://users.ox.ac.uk/~sfos0060/LGBT_figures.shtml

Once the LGB had achieved "equality", the organisations that were developed to support the LGB needed to find a new "hook" from which to hang their funding applications or they would go out of business.
Not hard to see what happened. £££.

Yep.

I thought that equality for gay / bisexual men and women meant that they could be treated just like everyone else and that their sexual orientation was just a facet of who they are, like their height or eye colour. I had no idea it meant that they would be praised and celebrated for wearing rainbow coloured butt plugs or whipping each while dressed like puppies in public.

I thought that equality for gay / bisexual men and women meant that they could be treated just like everyone else and that their sexual orientation was just a facet of who they are, like their height or eye colour. I had no idea it meant that they would be praised and celebrated for wearing rainbow coloured butt plugs or whipping each while dressed like puppies in public

I think we have an extreme idea of what " acceptance " is these days too.

It now seems to mean we threaten.and force people into one way of thinking and its ok to be violent and abusive towards those who disagree.

In reality it should really mean that we understand that some people are fine with it all others aren't but those that aren't are allowed to not be. What they arent allowed to do is be violent or abusive to those who are lgb etc. That would be a problem. But living your life quietly while keeping yourself to yourself should surely be ok?

Why do we have to let out kids hold dog leashes attached to latex clad men on all fours or be in the wrong?

It's quite true that there have always been gender non conforming people. However, previously trans means transvestites, not transgender. And it also didn't mean that the person had somehow changed sex just because they dressed in different clothing, which is now what we are expected to believe.

And the reason people are questioning this more is that there had been a huge shift in the last few years in language, policy and laws in many places which endorses the fact that transgender means the person has somehow changed sex. Which has massive implications for women's public spaces among other things.

This is not simply a question of identity, it is about forcing a belief system on other people.

Or that some things are private and not public?